Express that you want something!

[JockZon]

How can you say "I want" in japanese?

Ore wa nihongo wo benkyou suru

I want this to be transformed in "I want to study japanese." Thank you for helping (please don't use kanji)

[Bucko]

There are two different ways - one way for verbs (I want to do) and one for objects (I want something or other)

For verbs you use the 'masu' form and add 'tai' on the end. So with 'ore wa nihongo wo benkyou suru' you change 'suru' to 'shi' and add 'tai'. Therefore:

ore wa nihongo benkyou wo shitai

Other examples:
I want to go to America = amerika ni ikitai
I want to eat sushi = sushi wo tabetai
I want to drink a big beer = ookii biiru wo nomitai

To say that you want an object you use 'hoshii'
I want a beer: biiru ga hoshii
I want a new computer: atarashii konputaa ga hoshii

Easy!

[JockZon]

Excellent! Good answer, it's that simple huh?

[Bueller_007]

There are two different ways - one way for verbs (I want to do) and one for objects (I want something or other)

For verbs you use the 'masu' form and add 'tai' on the end. So with 'ore wa nihongo wo benkyou suru' you change 'suru' to 'shi' and add 'tai'. Therefore:

ore wa nihongo benkyou wo shitai

In theory, you should also change the "wo" to "ga", although there is a subtle difference, and this practice seems to be disappearing.

And if you don't know how to construct simple sentences yet, I don't recommend the use of "ore".

So:

Watashi wa nihongo ga benkyou shitai desu.

[JockZon]

Now I am getting confused. Yes I can construct simple sentences but what's the deal with ore then? I thought it was just watashi but for someone in my age.

[Jason]

Now I am getting confused. Yes I can construct simple sentences but what's the deal with ore then? I thought it was just watashi but for someone in my age.

No. Ore is not "just watashi but for age X." Ore is impolite and should never be used when talking to someone you don't know or towards someone like your boss, teacher, etc. So you shouldn't get into the habit of using it. You can use it with close friends and subordinates, but beyond that stay away from it.

If you don't particularly want to use watashi for some reason, boku is a good alternative.

[Bucko]

Now I am getting confused. Yes I can construct simple sentences but what's the deal with ore then? I thought it was just watashi but for someone in my age.

'Ore' is just less formal. My kid students use it all the time with me (their teacher) so I don't think it's that bad. To be honest I've never heard a guy use 'watashi'. It's always 'ore' and sometimes 'boku'. Come to think of it, I haven't really either of those much either! That's the nature of Japanese though, omitting subjects.

[metablue]

What do "ore" and "boku" really convey? My friend has been learning Japanese for a few years from his girlfriend and he was all worried about which to use. Said that "ore" sounds a bit macho and arrogant, and "boku" sounds a little soft and effeminate.

Is that really true? I can't believe that those are the only two options for men (other than plain old watashi). I got the impression that men don't usually use watashi.

[Bucko]

What do "ore" and "boku" really convey? My friend has been learning Japanese for a few years from his girlfriend and he was all worried about which to use. Said that "ore" sounds a bit macho and arrogant, and "boku" sounds a little soft and effeminate.

Is that really true? I can't believe that those are the only two options for men (other than plain old watashi). I got the impression that men don't usually use watashi.

This is taken from 'A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar' regarding personal pronouns. The pronouns are unisex unless stated otherwise:

Very formal: watakushi
Formal: watashi, atakushi (female)
Informal: boku (male), atashi (female), washi (older male)
Very informal: ore (male), asshi (male, Bay area of Tokyo)
Vulgar: atai (female)

[metablue]

I mean from the point of view of a Japanese speaker. Do you get a different impression of a person if they use "boku" rather than "ore"? If a guys says "ore" do you think he sounds confident or arrogant. Or is "ore" just the normal way of referring to yourself if you're a guy. If he says "boku" does he seem softer and gentler? If he uses "watashi" do you wonder why he isn't using one of the others? Does it sound impersonal? What if a girl says "boku"? Is it cute or just weird?

[Bucko]

I have no idea of the true feelings behind the words, just the definitions and my own observations, but I think 'boku' might be a fine enough word to use in most situations. Maybe it'd be a good idea for a JPod lesson? *hint to any admins reading this thread*

[Jason]

I mean from the point of view of a Japanese speaker. Do you get a different impression of a person if they use "boku" rather than "ore"? If a guys says "ore" do you think he sounds confident or arrogant. Or is "ore" just the normal way of referring to yourself if you're a guy. If he says "boku" does he seem softer and gentler?

Hmmm....well, I think it partly depends on who the guy's talking to. While "ore" is "technically" impolite and does have kind of macho connotations, if it's used among friends, subordinates, people the same age, etc., it would probably be considered normal. "Boku" is definitely softer, even moreso than "watashi", but I don't think I'd go so far as to call it effiminate. The kanji, 僕, litterally means "manservant", so that's probably how it came to be "softer." 俺 (ore), on the other hand going by Jim Breen's dictionary, seems to be more egocentric. I think both of them are pretty much "normal", but "ore" is probably more common. But they definitely project completey different attitudes.

Now coming from a foreigner, "ore" may sound especially rough unless you're pretty close to the people you use it around. Don't take my word on that though. It's just the impression I get.

But regardless whether it's normal or not, no one, epseically beginners, should get in the habit of using it since if you use it under the wrong circumstances it can be very offensive. At the same time, you may be given a bit of slack for being a foreigner if you use it inappropriately, but that's no excuse.

If he uses "watashi" do you wonder why he isn't using one of the others? Does it sound impersonal?

Perhaps depending on the situation, but I don't think it would be that big a deal. I think other things like being too polite in your general speech would be taken as being impersonal much more than using "watashi." I think how you communicate with and refer to the other person would have a lot more weight on if you were considered being impersonal than how you refer to yourself.

What if a girl says "boku"? Is it cute or just weird?

Personally, I find it cute. Though depending on the girl who says it, I think it would sound kinda strange coming from a girl who otherwise very feminine in how she acts. It might make a girl sound kinda tomboyish.

[JockZon]

Oh, what a discussion

I now it's impolite, don't assume that I don't know anything because I am asking. I didn't now the difference between ore and boku, but just tell me what impolite form of Watashi I should use when I am casual without sounding rude or arrogant. Is boku the right word to use? I know that watashi is the polite form and that you should use it among superiors etc. As I said, because I asked one thing doesn't mean that I don't now the other

By the way, in the movie Azumi the trained fighter which is a girl says ore

[Bueller_007]

I mean from the point of view of a Japanese speaker. Do you get a different impression of a person if they use "boku" rather than "ore"? If a guys says "ore" do you think he sounds confident or arrogant. Or is "ore" just the normal way of referring to yourself if you're a guy. If he says "boku" does he seem softer and gentler? If he uses "watashi" do you wonder why he isn't using one of the others? Does it sound impersonal? What if a girl says "boku"? Is it cute or just weird?

When I was first learning Japanese, I asked my male and female friends this very question.

The male friends said that they tended to use "ore" when talking to the guys, but "boku" when talking to women. (And, of course, watashi in formal situations.)

All of my female friends said that they very much preferred the use of "boku" over "ore" when men were speaking to them.

So generally, I follow this rule. "Ore" when talking to guys, and "boku" when talking to girls. Because most of my friends are women, I say "boku" FAR more than I say "ore". "Boku" is somewhat effeminate though, and for example, if you watch the movie "As Good As It Gets" with Japanese subtitles on, the gay character Simon always uses "boku", regardless of who he is talking to. That's one of the ways in which it is implied that he is gay.

You have to be VERY careful with Japanese pronouns. VERY CAREFUL. When I was first learning Japanese, I typed あんた instead of あなた in a keitai email to a girl I was dating. It's only a VERY slight difference phonetically, but she was none too pleased that she had gone from being あなた, which implies respect, to あんた which is extremely familiar, and in many situations, quite rude. I had no idea.

'Ore' is just less formal. My kid students use it all the time with me (their teacher) so I don't think it's that bad. To be honest I've never heard a guy use 'watashi'. It's always 'ore' and sometimes 'boku'. Come to think of it, I haven't really either of those much either! That's the nature of Japanese though, omitting subjects.

You should definitely NEVER copy what your kids say in class. They don't understand levels of politeness and respect. As I once heard one of my friends say: "Japaneseness [i.e. polite speech, etc.] is something that you learn in school."

[Jason]

Oh yeah. I also think this would make an excellent lesson topic.