Sumimasen vs. Suimasen

[psj2000]

At first I thought my hearing was going bad when I kept hearing すいません(suimasen) even in beginner lessons. But after several passes and checking around other sources, I found that you can say either すみません(sumimasen) or すいません(suimasen).

From what I've reasoned on various posts elsewhere on the net, the latter appears to be slang. Could we get clarification on the usage? I think this should appear in a public lesson as I would hate to offend someone with informal usage of this phrase. A response here would be great too!

Thanks,
George

[jemstone]

i think it's a slang. i could relate that to an english word like "government". say it long enough and quick enough, you might sound like you're saying "garment".

generally i think it's meaning is mostly the same as sumimasen すみません, that is mostly to express apology or to request for assistance like "excuse me".

however as i googled on the usage of sumimasen and suimasen, i realized there are some instances of it being used to express thanks. one instance i read was "suimasen tasukarimashita" "すいません　たすかりました"

maybe it is used to express thanks like this "i'm sorry you had to spend your time to help me". that would be as good as saying "thank you for helping me" wouldn't it?

edit:
i think it would be a good addition for some of the informal tracks (if it's not already in there) as i think it's a slang.

[Shaydwyrm]

This may end up being confusing, but I thought it was interesting: すみません　has become a ritual expression, but it comes from 済みません, meaning roughly "it doesn't end"; that is, "the obligation that I have toward you (for this) will never end." (obviously the meaning is toned down a bit now that it's become a set phrase!) If you get your head around that, I find that it's quite natural to see how it can be used as "excuse me", "thank you", and "I'm sorry". A coworker told me the other day that if you want to say "I'm sorry" unambiguously, it is better and slightly more polite to use ごめんなさい。

As for the difference between すいません　and すみません, I think it is more of a colloquialism than slang, and has more to do with how fast you are speaking than any level of politeness.

[markystar]

actually naomi-san gave statistics on this in one of her PDF's in the newbie series.
unfortunately, i couldn't find it just now....


in my own experience, i use すいません most of the time, and i save すみません for when i'm really sorry.
but if i want to be really sorry and still be friendly, i'll use すいません or すいませんでした.

i'm not japanese, but i think it also boils down to a style issue. if your polite or want to be polite, stick with the text book すみません, you can never go wrong. if you're a loose goose, then try すいません and if you don't get any funny looks, then you're probably alright.

[untmdsprt]

Thanks Marky-さん！！

I was wondering if すいません was a faster way of saying すみません。I heard たけさん say that in some of the lessons he's in.

[jemstone]

and if you don't get any funny looks, then you're probably alright.

i don't know why but i just love this phrase... aahahah!

[Jason]

Meaningwise, すみません and すいません are exactly the same. すいません is slightly more casual but I don't think so casual that it would be rude to use it with someone you just met. Though you might not want to use it with your boss.