Some advice I found in a book

[WalterWills]

I recently borrowed a book called "Japanese Words and Their Uses" by Akira Miura.
It gives an in-depth look at 300 Japanese words that are commonly used incorrectly.

Here are some of them which I'm certainly glad to learn of:

AMAI

Unlike English "sweet", amai cannot mean "amiable" or "kind". In English, calling someone a sweet person would be complimentary. In Japanese, on the other hand, "amai hito", if it means anything at all, can only be interpreted as either "an indulgent person " or "an overly optimistic person".

NIHONJIN

"When "nihonjin" is written in Kanji, the last character is the one for "hito". Since "hito" is not an honorific expression, "ninhonjin" is not either. Upon meeting a Japanese-looking stranger, therefore, it is not courteous to use "Nihonjin desu ka?" to mean "Are you a Japanese?" It is better to ask "Nihon no kata desu ka?", using "kata", the honorific counterpart of "hito".

SOO DESU

"Soo desu"...and its negative counterpart, "Soo ja arimasen"...are most normally used in response to a question that ends with a noun + desu ka (or ja arimasen ka).

In response to a question that ends with an adjective + desu ka, or a verb + desu ka, don't use "soo desu" but repeat the same adjective or verb instead.

"Sore wa oishii desu ka?"
"Ee, oishii desu yo."


The above does not apply to "soo desu ne" or "soo desu ka?"

"Sore wa oishii desu ne."
"Soo desu ne."



That's all I can be bothered to type! Sorry!


The first edition was in 1983, with the third in 1990, so I expect everything is still relevant.

[Bucko]

Some good advice here. Another piece of invaluable advice I've received is to not speak Japanese like you would English. English is a noun language, thus nouns are very important to the sentence and thus they need to be qualified and modified with pronouns such as a/the/his/this/those/my/your, and need to always appear in sentences. Japanese, on the other hand, is a verb language, with some complex verb forms that are just not needed in English (ておく、てしまう、てある、 etc).

When speaking Japanese, you often don't need the subject if it's already known. English speakers speaking Japanese will "watashi wa" this and "anata wa" and "watashi no" this and "kare ha" that. It's just not needed in Japanese.

[WalterWills]

I don't know if this is the best way to describe it but I've always thought of English as a very "metaphoric" language, i.e. most nouns and verbs can be used in lots of various ways. Although I'm just a beginner to the Japanese language, I'm trying to make sure that I don't fall into the trap of using Japanese words the same way as I would with the English equivalents, as this is how mistakes are made as the book points out. I don't think many English-Japanese dictionaries do a good job of this. I suppose it would be too much information for one thing.

[Tom]

That sounds like a book I really should get.

[lonna_senpai]

Yeah my main problem with Japanese is that I'm still thinking in English. It's hard to turn that switch off. Japanese and English are so different in the way they are structured. If only I could remember that! TY, for the advise. I never thought of 'Nihonjin' as a impolite word but that does make sense.

[jkeyz15]

nihonjin is not impolite.
Nor is it rude, casual, etc. It's just a normal , neutral kind of word. Saying nihon no kata just bumps up the politeness some.

Coming from someone is who close to fluency....(yet still so far it seems)
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For thinking in English, I'd suggest not to translate what you want to say in Japanese from English. If you find yourself thinking of the English first when speaking Japanese or translating when listening and reading stop and start over. Try to break the associations of Japanese words to English words in your brain. My advice is when you read Japanese sentences avoid translating in your head. If you do translate do not do it for understanding purposes. Try to limit the English.

Get as much Japanese material as you can get your hands on. Read children's stories (look at the one below). read manga and watch dramas and comedies if you are at an intermediate level. Pay attention to how people express various thoughts and feelings in different situations.
If you don't understand something you are reading, try to understand the context or general idea as best as you can and skip that sentence. If you don't understand something someone is saying to you, don't ask them to translate to English, ask for them to rephrase it another way in Japanese.

Also get rikaichan for firefox (polarcloud.com) and try to use dic.yahoo.co.jp as much as possible with the help of the rikaichan firefox add-on. J-E and E-J dictionaries are not very good for understanding the meaning of words other than ones like cat, car, tree. They are better served as "translation advisors" context and J dictionaries will be the best teachers.

Here is a children's story: (I can add furigana if needed)
[quote=ももたろう-the peach boy]
むかしむかし、あるところにおじいさんとおばあさんがいました。毎日、おじいさんは山へしばかりに、おばあさんは川へせんたくに行っていました。
ある日おばあさんが川でせんたくをしていると、大きなももがどんぶらこどんぶらことながれてきました。おばあさんはおじいさんにおいしいももを食べさせてあげようと、そのももを家へもって帰りました。山から帰ってきたおじいさんも、おいしそうなももを見てたいそうよろこびました。そしておじいさんとおばあさんはももを半分にわりました。するとびっくり、ももの中から元気な男の子がとび出してきたのです。
おじいさんとおばあさんには子どもがいなかったので、このももから生まれた子どもを天からのさずかりものだといって「ももたろう」と名づけてそだてることにしました。ももたろうはおばあさんのつくるごはんをたくさん食べて、どんどん大きくなりました。

ももたろうはあっというまに大きくなって、力もちになりました。でも、ももたろうは毎日なまけてねてばかりいます。村のわかいしゅうが山へたきぎをひろいに行く時も、ももたろうだけは村にのこって何もしません。おじいさんとおばあさんはしんぱいして、「ももたろうをさそっておくれ。」とわかいしゅうにたのみました。「ももたろう、いっしょに山へたきぎをとりに行こうよ。」とさそわれても、「しょいこがないから行けないよ。」と、ももたろうはごろんと昼ねをしはじめました。つぎの日も、「わらじがないから行けないよ。」と言います。そのつぎの日とうとうおばあさんがおこりだしたので、ももたろうはしかたなしに村のみんなといっしょに山へ行きました。

山でみんながたきぎをひろっているあいだ、ももたろうは昼ねをしていました。たきぎあつめがおわってみんなが帰りじたくをはじめるころに、「さて、おれもたきぎをひろって帰ろうかな。」とももたろうが言い出しました。みんなは「今ごろたきぎをあつめたら帰りがおそくなるよ。」と言いました。するとももたろうは、いきなり大きな木をつかみ、その木をめりめりと引きぬいてしまいました。みんながびっくりしている中、ももたろうはその木をかついで村に帰って行きました。

木をかついで帰ってきたももたろうを見て、おじいさんとおばあさんはとてもおどろきました。そしてその話がおとのさまの耳に入るとおとのさまはももたろうをお城によんでこう言いました。「前からわるい鬼が何度も何度も村人をおそっては、いろいろなものを盗んでいく。力もちなら、鬼をたいじしてくれぬか。」
こうしてももたろうは鬼たいじの旅に出かけることになりました。

ももたろうが旅に出るとき、おじいさんとおばあさんはきびだんごを作ってももたろうにもたせました。
ももたろうは、道のとちゅうで犬に出会いました。「ももたろうさん、どこへ行くのですか。」と犬が聞きました。「鬼がしまへ鬼たいじに行くところだ。」「このこしにぶら下げているものは何ですか。」「日本一のきびだんごだ。」「ひとつくださいな。おともします。」と犬は言いました。
そこでももたろうは犬にきびだんごをあげました。
犬といっしょに旅をつづけると、さるに会いました。「ももたろうさん、どこへ行くのですか。」と聞きました。「鬼がしまへ鬼たいじに。」「このこしにぶら下げているものは何ですか。」「日本一のきびだんごだ。」「ひとつくださいな。おともします。」とさるは言いました。ももたろうはさるにもきびだんごをあげました。
そしてももたろうは犬とさるをつれて旅をつづけました。こんどはきじが一羽とんで来て、おなじように、「ももたろうさん、どこへ行くのですか。」と聞きました。「鬼が島へ鬼たいじに。」
「このこしにぶら下げているものは何ですか。」「日本一のきびだんご。」「ひとつくださいな。おともします。」ときじは言いました。そしてももたろうはきじにもきびだんごをあげました。

ももたろうと、犬、さる、きじは浜辺につきました。そして船にのり、鬼が島へむかって海へこぎだしました。ところが、こげどもこげども島は見えません。そこできじが島をさがしにとんで行きき、島を見つけてその方角をおしえました。そして、みなは鬼が島につきました。島には鬼の城がありました。城の門はぴったりとしめられていましたが、さるがすばやく門にのぼって中からかんぬきをあけ、門をひらきました。でも鬼はそんなこととはしらず、酒をのんでは歌を歌っていました。そこでももたろうは大声でさけびました。「ももたろうだ。おまえたちをたいじに来たぞ。」鬼たちは犬とこぞうに何ができるとわらいとばしました。でも日本一のきびだんごをたべて元気いっぱいのももたろうとなかまたちは、あっというまに鬼たちをやっつけてしまいました。鬼たちは「たからものはおかえしします。もう二度と悪いことはしません。いのちだけはおたすけください。」とあやまりました。

こうして、ももたろうと仲間たちはたからものをもって村へ帰りました。しんぱいしていたおじいさんとおばあさんも、ももたろうの大てがらをたいそうよろこびました。それからももたろうはおじいさんとおばあさんといつまでもしあわせにくらしました。めでたしめでたし。
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[Javizy]

This is what worries me most about learning Japanese. Like it has been said, thinking in English and then translating just doesn't work. It seems that even if you know the grammar well and have a sizeable vocabulary, it's still impossible to express yourself naturally. I'm not confident in saying anything I haven't heard said/read before. I'm sure this is the case with most languages, but since Japanese is so radically different, it takes a lot more effort.

I definitely agree with the point about manga; the speech bubbles are simpler than a book, and obviously the illustrations visualise the dialogues and help you remember the vocabulary. The furigana is extremely small though, I need to buy some sort of magnifying glass. I've tried children's books, but when you're looking at a page of hiragana, and relentlessly flicking through your dictionary in an effort to make sense of it, it quickly becomes tiresome. With manga, you have more kanji and the pictures to keep you entertained

[jkeyz15]

yeah the only problem with manga though are the colloquialisms and abbreviations if you're not used to them.

As for knowing grammar, yes I agree with you...it won't give any confidence in speaking, it just enables you to pick apart sentences that you don't understand
Grammar is a very important thing to learn, but if you never make use of it you will never be able to speak fluently. I don't know about others but my goal is not to just understand and be understood, my goal is to make someone confuse me with a native speaker.

30% of my day is in Japanese. Use it as much as possible. I forgot who told me, but a friend of mine who is in college is studying the brain (I don't know what profession) and Japanese). He tried to give me a visual explanation that vocabulary and grammar are stored in seperate parts. When the speaking part of the brain intiates (when you are speaking) it "builds" neural pathways to the vocabulary and grammar. With limited usage the pathway is "long" and "poorly built" but with increased shortcuts, you're brain makes "short-cuts" and becomes better at retrieving the information.

You'll never be confident without using it almost everyday. Think about young toddlers; Their English sounds kind of strange yet somewhat understandble; but they use the language everyday, and gradually increase their speaking abilities.