wa to ga

[metablue]

"wa" to "ga" wa dou chigaimasu ka?

You meanies ... you left me hanging after Airplane Encounter III!


Laura

[kinoko]

this has gotta be the most-asked question of all time. maybe the site should have some kind of FAQs wiki like chinesepod.

i think i got the grasp of it now... but it took me a while. http://japanese.about.com and http://guidetojapanese.org have really helped me out, but after reading that, there was still some stuff that wasn't too clear to me.
i think the best way to learn it is from looking at lots of examples. i watch japanese tv/anime and read manga and stuff like that while listening closely to certain sentences structures and word usages.
i don't think that it can really be perfectly explained... either that, i haven't looked at enough explanations.


i think that a show covering this might just make lots of questions spring up. i dunno. but i guess it wouldnt hurt to try, huh?

[JockZon]

I have looked on lots of examples and I think that ga is sometimes used when there already is a wa

Example:
(Watashi wa)Nihon ga suki desu

This is just a unconfirmed theory that I've got.

[Jason]

I have looked on lots of examples and I think that ga is sometimes used when there already is a wa

Example:
(Watashi wa)Nihon ga suki desu

This is just a unconfirmed theory that I've got.

I have class in a little whiel so I can't go into detail now, but sorry it's not nearly that simple.

[The Frankensteiner]

Another thing I never got was when to use "desu yo" and when to use "desu ne". Or when to leave both out and just use "desu". I haven't listened to all the lessons yet so I don't know if they've been covered.

[Bueller_007]

I have looked on lots of examples and I think that ga is sometimes used when there already is a wa

There's a massive set of rules about 400 pages long. It's about as complicated as the difference between "a" and "the" in English, which seems simple until you actually try to explain it.

Basically, seven things:

1. "wa" has nothing to do with subject, object, etc. It marks the "topic" of the sentence. The common explanation is that "wa" is best translated into English as "As for ~~, ...". This is why it sometimes appears that the "ga" is only used after "wa". But "wa" can come after "ga" too.
僕がどんなにうれしくなったか、綾香は分からない。(Ayaka, you don't know how happy I have become.)

2. "ga" is used to introduce a subject. "wa" is used to refer to a subject that has already been introduced. Here "ga" is the same as English "a", and "wa" is the same as English "the". The "wa" is unnecessary if the topic is obvious.
猫がネズミを食った。（猫は）おなかいっぱいだろう。(A cat ate a mouse. The cat is probably full now.)

3. "ga" is used in subordinate clauses. "wa" is not. In this case, "no" can take the place of "ga".
私が書いた論文を提出した。／私の書いた論文を提出した。((I) handed in the thesis I wrote.)
私は書いた論文を提出した。(I handed in a thesis that was written (by me).)

4. "ga" emphasizes what comes BEFORE it. "wa" emphasizes what comes AFTER it.
これはナイフだ。(This is a knife.)
これがナイフだ。(THIS is a knife. (Perhaps said to someone who has argued otherwise.))

5. "ga" emphasizes temporariness. "wa" emphasizes permanence.
星はきれいだ。(Stars are beautiful.)
星がきれいだ。(The stars are beautiful (now).)

6. "wa" is used for comparisons. "ga" is not.
レッドブールは好きだが、アリナミンはあまり好きじゃない。(I like Red Bull, but I don't like Arinamin.)

7. "ga" is not used in conjunction with some of the other particles. "wa" is.
簡単にはできない。(It can't be done easily.) ○
簡単にができない。(Huh?) X

Certain verbs/adjectives are said to always take "ga" ("suki", "kirai", "kikoeru", "wakaru", etc.) but there are exceptions, like the example I posted in #6.

Anything I missed?

[Jason]

Another thing I never got was when to use "desu yo" and when to use "desu ne". Or when to leave both out and just use "desu". I haven't listened to all the lessons yet so I don't know if they've been covered.

Well, that's a completely different topic. You should make a new thread for it.

[Jason]

Anything I missed?

8) In negative sentences, ga tends to get replaced by wa.

コーヒーが好（す）きです。
あまりコーヒーは好（す）きではありません。

[JockZon]

Have I understand correctly that you sometimes can use ga OR wa depending on how direct you want to sound.

[Bueller_007]

Have I understand correctly that you sometimes can use ga OR wa depending on how direct you want to sound.

Not really.

Example conversations:
A (holding a pencil): これはナイフです。(This is a knife.)
B (holding a knife): 違います。これがナイフです。(No. THIS is a knife.)

A (holding a pencil):これはナイフです。(This is a knife.)
B: 違います。それは鉛筆です。(No. That is a pencil.)

You can see that "ga" stresses what comes before it. "wa" stresses what comes after it. In example 2a, the important point is that a pencil is not a knife, THIS is a knife. In example 2b, the important point is that the object he is holding is a PENCIL, not a knife.

Neither case sounds "forceful" or "direct". To make it forceful, you'd at something at the end of the sentence, like "yo".

[Bueller_007]

Anything I missed?

In negative sentences, ga tends to get replaced by wa.

コーヒーが好（す）きです。
あまりコーヒーは好（す）きではありません。

9) As a corollary of #4, "ga" is used after interrogatives (question words).
何が箱に入っていますか。(What's in the box?)
However, questions can be rearranged to use "wa" instead of "ga":
箱に入っているのは何ですか。(That thing in the box...what is it?)

[Bueller_007]

Anything I missed?

In negative sentences, ga tends to get replaced by wa.

コーヒーが好（す）きです。
あまりコーヒーは好（す）きではありません。

9) As a corollary of #4, "ga" is used after interrogatives (question words).
何が箱に入っていますか。(What's in the box?)
However, questions can be rearranged to use "wa" instead of "ga":
箱に入っているのは何ですか。(That thing in the box...what is it?)

That said, it's really a complex interaction of these rules that dictates which one to use in any situation. I still make mistakes with it all the time, and there might even be some mistakes in the stuff I've written in this thread. But if you make a mistake, you will usually still be understood. It will just sound "less natural".

[metablue]

Wow. I'll be digesting all this for a while.

Laura