The Art of Indirectness

[tarokun]

I know that Japanese communications prefer to be indirect and vague rather than direct and straight-to-the-point in order to promote harmony rather than conflict. A famous example is when US President Nixon visited Japanese Prime Miniser Eisaku Sato in 1969 and asked him to impose textile tax, for which Sato replied, "zensho shimasu" which translates literally to "I will take a proper step." However, Sato really meant no. So, not being able to read-between-the-line can lead to gross misunderstanding.

So, can we have some lessons that illustrates the proper Japanese ways of saying "no" or disagreeing. In particular, how do you properly

1) turn down a date when someone asks?
2) turn down an offer or gift?
3) offer a contrary opinion?
4) telling the other person that he/she is wrong?
5) same as in 4) except what if that person is considered to be your superior instead of peers or subordinates?

And also how you can tell what the other person's real meaning is behind his/her words?

[metablue]

A country where you can turn down a date with " Chotto ..." and have it be understood sounds like heaven.

L

[Brugg]

This is part of what makes japanese so interesting. Great idea! Would be great if you could cover this over several lessons, as it's such an essential point. It also probably makes for some intresting creative work by the writers if i know them right!

Btw, the second series of the good old "Let's learn japanese basic!" covers some of this, at least judging from what i've been watching so far. As a bonus, it also has that stylish eighties feeling.

[Jason]

Keigo is a wonderful (read: frustrating) source of indirection. Silly example:

私（わたくし）にはこちらの洗濯機（せんたくき)を持たせていただけませんか。
(very litteral) "Will you not do me the honor of allowing me to carry this washing machine for you?"

[Jonas]

I'm sure you aimed for the mo and not the ma... 持たせて, not 待たせて

[Jason]

Fixed.

[Liz21]

The topic of "indirectness" in Japanese is totally fascinating to me! I want to know all about it!!

I'm afraid a foreigner can't learn this.

[tarokun]

Well I did not just mean Keigo. Let me explain. Quite a few times when I was watching anime, I saw the character shook her head and said "ie" but yet the subtitle would translate "yes," and vice versa: the character nogged and said "hai" but the subtitle said "no."

I'm pretty sure that was no mis-translation too, judging by the way the dialect then proceeded.

I googled it up a bit and found that Japanese when they are prompted with a negative question, tend to give answers opposite to what westerners might expect.

Can you imagine how embarassing it would be if I were to ask a Japanese girl out for a date and then to show up at her front door with flowers expecting good things but only in return to receive from her an explanation of proper Japanese communication on why her prior response of "hai" was really an "ie?"

[metablue]

LOL! You're right. That would be painful.

I remember reading once in some kind of business magazine that "Japanese people don't like saying 'no', so sometimes they say yes, but really they mean no." It made them sound very odd and mysterious.

But lately I read that "hai" doesn't mean "yes" in the sense of the English "yes". It means something more like "understood" or "that's right", among other things. That makes so much more sense.

Here's what it says in a book I have at home now. It's 'Breakthrough Japanese - 20 Mini Lessons for Better Conversation' by Hitomi Hirayama.

Hai can mean:
I understand; I see; uh-huh; certainly!; sure!; OK!; here!; Attention!; Yes. (that's right); No (that's right).

Here are some examples for Yes/No (mostly in English so I don't have to stare at the book while I type). I added the bits in brackets:

Understanding:
Please come into work early tomorrow.
Hai, demo ... chotto muzukashi desu. => I'd like to but I'm afraid I can't.

Responding to a positive question:
Is Mr Iniba there?
Hai, imasu. => Yes, he is.

Responding to a negative question:
Is Mr Iniba not there?
Hai, imasen. => No, he's not. (Yes, he's not here)

Soft refusal of a negative question:
Tomorrow aren't you going with us?
Hai, demo chotto ... => No, I can't. (Yes, I'm not going with you)


I don't think it's impossible for Westerners to master indirectness and politeness. There's already a huge range of indirectness levels used by people in the US, for example. Not to mention the differences between women and men (in general, massive oversimplification, disclaimer disclaimer). I'm a computer programmer working mostly with men, and I've had to learn to be direct so that I'm not misunderstood or misinterpreted. It's taken years to become comfortable with it.

Eg, if I say "I think X is so", I mean "I'm 80-99% sure, but of course there's always a small chance I'm wrong", but I've noticed that guys will say "X is so" even when they're only 40% sure. So often they assume that my "I think" means that I don't really know. If I say "X is so", then it means I know it's true without a shadow of a doubt. But this is interpreted as "I'm more than 40% sure". And because they're used to me saying "I think" a lot, they assume that I'm unsure in general, so the 40% sureness gets discounted even further. My "I'm 100% certain" is interpreted as "I don't really know". Until they get to know me better, that is.

Likewise with dating. There seem to be a lot of guys who don't understand that hesitation means lack of interest. In fact, there are a surprising number of guys who interpret anything up to and including "get lost!" as a come-on.

I absolutely love the idea of a language and culture that puts value on understanding the things that people leave unsaid.

[Brugg]

Great info! This is superb lesson material! And i totally agree with that last statement. The idea of giving the unsaid importance just seems very attractive for a tired european like me. If that makes sense.