Okasan vs. haha?

[yayforjapanese]

Is 'okasan/okaasan' kind of like 'mother',
and 'haha' more like 'mom'?

Or what's the relationship between these two words please?

[j_bertoni2279]

okaasan is the honorific form of address, and you'd definitely use it to refer to someone else's mother. Formally, you wouldn't use it to refer to your own mother, but, in practice, at least some Japanese do. haha would be used, formally, for your own mother, or in more casual speech. You might say "okaasan" to ask for some spending money, for example.

I don't think okasan is correct.

[Belton]

It's all about respect and hierarchy. It is not dependant on the formality of speaking. (desu form, plain form etc.)

So when talking to people outside your group you use a humble form, haha. はは. (my mother)
When talking about someone else's mother you use a respectful form, okaasan. おかあさん. (your mother, her mother, his mother)

Within the family, you would also use a respectful form rather than a humble form, because your parents are the top of the family hierarchy.
In my wife's family her parents are called kaasan かあさん、and tousan とうさん、(sometimes おかあさん and おとうさん but never はは or ちち) both when addressing them and talking about them. They also refer to each other in this way. The level of speech is very casual within the family but the term of address to someone "higher up" is always respectful. I would also never use my parents-in-law given names. To me they are also かあさん、and とうさん.

There are also other forms; mama and papa with young children, haha-ue and chichi-ue which now seem old-fashioned. -san can also change to -sama or -chan.

Respect, honorifics, politeness, and humbleness can be difficult ideas when learning Japanese. (They can even be difficult for Japanese to use properly.)

[j_bertoni2279]

The usage is (or was) more varied than that. When I visited a friend in Tokyo, and she spoke to me and referred to her mother as "Okaasan", her mother corrected her to "haha".

I agree that it's not connected so much to the "desu" vs "da" formality concept.

[Belton]

The usage is (or was) more varied than that. When I visited a friend in Tokyo, and she spoke to me and referred to her mother as "Okaasan", her mother corrected her to "haha".
.

But that's the point.
You weren't part of the family so your friend should have used a humble word for her mother when speaking to you. Because they should use humble words to describe their family to you as an outsider. Her mother just reminded her of her manners. In turn you would have had to use a respectful form because they aren't part of your family.
If you were part of the family, through marriage, you would both use okaasan, because within the family the mother has a higher status than both of you.
I have heard close friends brought into the family group idea though.

For learners though, the safest route is to use haha to refer to their own mother, and okaasan to refer to anyone else's. Not being Japanese they don't have to worry about usage within their own family.

I agree there is varied usage of respectful language, but it's more due to a lack of confidence in younger people using those forms. Apparently some companies run courses in it as part of the induction of new employees, so they can speak to customers and clients properly. It's possible that aspect of the language could change over the next few generations, I suppose.

[j_bertoni2279]

I agree with what you have said in general, but I am not convinced that the "in-group" and "out-group" is as regularly followed these days as my friend's mother (as opposed to my friend) seemed to think it should be.