problem with potential form

[attwad]

Are these 2 sentences correct? Can the second one be used instead of using the potential form of verbs in every case?

りんごが食べられる(I can eat an apple)
りんごは食べるが出来る(eating an apple is possible)

I think the first one is better, am I wrong?

[Tom]

I'm not sure, but it seems like the second sentence should have 食べるのが or 食べることが. I also don't know any of the subtleties regarding these forms. :\

[attwad]

Yes I think you're definitely right about adding こと or の

「食べることが出来ます」scores 81000 hits on google and with の 300000... it seems to be grammaticaly correct
There's just the meaning to confirm...

[Joey]

I'm no expert but i think that
taberu = to eat
taberareru = to be eaten
so your first sentence means "the apple is eaten", i think

and for your second sentence i think they are right about adding the koto or no to turn the verb into its noun form, its like adding the "ing" in english as in "eating a apple is possible"
i think you could also change it to "ringo wo" instead of "ringo wa" too.

[tiroth2]

Joey,

For eru verbs, both the passive and potential have the same form, which can be quite confusing!

taberareru = 1. to be eaten 2. to be possible to eat

You also have to be pretty careful with particles here.

りんごが食べられる(I can eat an apple)
りんごは食べるのが出来る (eating an apple is possible)
りんごを食べるのが出来る(I can eat an apple)

× りんごを食べられる [not grammatical in the potential]

[jkeyz15]

There was a discussion in the about Japanese section of Tae Kim grammar guide forums at guidetojapanese.org/forum/ about a month or so ago.

They discussed the potential form that is shared with passive and some differences and shared qualities and things like that. I don't remember much from it and I'm too lazy to look it up.

[attwad]

なるほど。。。 after a reading of the potential section of Kim Tae's guide I finnaly understand thanks a lot!