random question

[bob1777]

In VERY old Japanese, everything was kanji, and was written by the men. Hiragana began to get used in Japanese and was used by women. Over time hirogana was used by both men and women.

that;s funny. is that so really , where did you hear about it?

What I don't get is why tobacco is written as ta-ba-ko in hirogana! Did the word tobacco come from Japan? I don't know!

I've seen it written in both hiragana and katakana.
"hiragana for japanese words, katakana for foreign" is still v true, but it's also not a hard rule from what i see. (in the informal communication of course)

I asked my JP friends why smtimes Jp word is written in katakana, and from answer I got the feeling that it does not make much of a difference for some, especially younger people.

[lucasburns]

that;s funny. is that so really Smile, where did you hear about it?

A couple of my Japanese friends here (Osaka) told me that.

Interesting to note is that I have been to see a few historical sites here, and there have been plaques written entirely in the old Japanese that is jsut Kanji, and my friends haven't had a clue how to read!

[Bueller_007]

In VERY old Japanese, everything was kanji, and was written by the men. Hiragana began to get used in Japanese and was used by women. Over time hirogana was used by both men and women.

This is true. The reason is that women were not well-educated enough to understand kanji.

I asked my JP friends why smtimes Jp word is written in katakana, and from answer I got the feeling that it does not make much of a difference for some, especially younger people.

Japanese words are usually written in katakana when the kanji is too difficult. This is especially true for names of Japanese plants and animals. I think they do it this way to let people know "yeah, there are kanji for this word, but we don't know them".

You'll see the same thing on TV news. For example, if they interview a woman on the street named "Tanaka Mikiko", they will often write her name: 田中ミキコ There's only one way to write Tanaka, but there are a ton of ways to write "Mikiko", and since they probably didn't get her to write her name (they only asked her), they have no idea how to write it. If they wrote it みきこ, people might think that this was the proper way to write her name. It might be regarded as a "typo". They write it with katakana so that viewers know "yeah, there are probably kanji for this name, but we don't know them. Here's what her name sounds like."

[Jason]

タンス（箪笥） is a fairly common word like that.

[Bueller_007]

タンス（箪笥） is a fairly common word like that.

Exactly.

As for the tobacco thing, I just found the word I was looking for. Words like this use what is called "gikun" (義訓) reading, which means "pronouncing kanji based on their meaning, not on the sounds of the individual parts". The pronunciation of the word 煙草 SHOULD BE "ensou". But the kanji, meaning "smoke" and "grass", is instead connected to the Portuguese loanword "tabaco". Tobacco was probably introduced to Japan by the Portuguese before the use of katakana for loanwords was popularized.

It's also possible that the kanji 煙草 started to be used when the kanji 莨 (also pronounced "tabako") fell out of fashion.

[Belton]

can you recommend any good katakana/hiragana learning books? i do wanna invest in this language... it's always interested me ^.~; thanks!

You don't really need a book for hiragana/katakana. Use the practice sheets that you can find on this site and elsewhere.

I learnt them by continually writing them out whenever I got the chance. And used them whenever I could instead of romaji

HOWEVER,
I can recommend this book. It's fairly inexpensive and the best of the kana learning books I've come across.

Self Study Kana Workbook.
I like the way the words are being poured into the hinged skull!
Publisher: Jp Trading Inc
ISBN: 4883191583

It comes with a CD so you get the sounds at the same time and pick up some vocabulary and get used to dictation. There are little games and exercises as well.
It also points out common writing mistakes. A teacher will also do this. (It's like learning to write again. I inverted shapes and couldn't read some kana written in different typefaces!)

And then once you've mastered them you turn around and eek! there are thousands of kanji ahead of you. But oddly Japanese is soo much easier to read with a mix of kanji and kana than if it's only kana. hontou ni ganbatte ne!

On kana usage.
Sometimes I think it's just stylistic. Yes the "rule" is katakana for loan words and for emphasis. But I've seen exceptions. The only thing that seems hard and fast is don't mix katakana and hiragana in a single word. Although I'm sure someone can find that exception too. (so I say, it's your name write it how ever you want!) Personally I don't like katakana so much. The shapes are too similar for quick recognition I find. How it makes things stand out for Japanese I'll never know.