JapanesePod101 vs traditional methods

[Fridaylistener]

Danmont. My level is intermediate. I never saw harm in your posts, only a (serious) game that will improve (or not) depending on the time you take to answer.

Ersby. I am a teacher too and most of what you say makes sense to me. I also use a combination of online and paper Japanese lessons. I think the sheer volume of materials on offer is online, not on jpod (maybe you were speaking about this too) The linguistic and pedagogical grounds of jpod are close to zero though it is true that they have improved recently. There is no continuity on jpod lessons but there are alternatives. A more careful preparation of classes would make a difference (that´s my experience and the experience of my colleagues). If we can divide classes in 1 hr units people should be able to adapt them too to the 15 minute constraint.

Peter emphasizes the emotional side of the classes and tries, above all, not to be boring. There is nothing wrong with this (obviously, it is only positive) but I don´t see it as positive if your teaching fails because of that bias. He tries to channel the chinesepod.com idea through his own personality and hopes that the final result will be a good Japanese online course. He is not a teacher and even have a gentle disdain towards what they/we do. His web´s hype underline in a more or less subtle way the differences with the so-called traditional methods but he has to face up once and again in his daily work the problems traditional teaching has. He is able to create an emotional attachment with many listeners thanks to his great personality (I sincerely consider him a wonderful person) and this will certainly helped them to start to study such a difficult language like this but, in my opinion, he mixes things that shouldn´t be mixed. The truth is that there are no shortcuts to learn a language and, sooner or later, every listener will have to face with the fact that the one-of-the-most-difficult-languages-in-the-world reputation is not just a white lie. Basic japanese learners won´t feel its shortcomings but the more Japanese I learn, the more limitations I find in this web and the less I use it. Nowadays teachers are expected to be clowns too and Peter is a clown who risked into the teaching field (clown is for me an actor who wants to make other people laugh. I have the highest consideration for both activities and so this word has no negative nuance for me) I think mixing both activities leads nowhere. Teachers should teach and clowns should be clowns but when people doesn´t want to make an effort or is unable to find rewards whithin the learning language process itself, “nice-guys-2.0” will take the lead.

Take care

[DanMont]

Hello everybody, and hello friday listener.
I thought you were a teacher, I wondered a bit for Japanese, but definitively a teacher . Would you mind to tell me the subject you teach?

So, as I stated yesterday I would like to begin with the first point:

• Jpod privileges fun over reinforcement of basic grammatical notions, lengthening the time needed to learned basic stuff.
YES. They want to be funny and they are successful but the linguistic contents are the losers. A careful analysis of the way they arrange their lessons and their contens show it easily.

Then, as we have some feedback we could I think summarize the general Idea than jPod is a kind of supplemental tools, complementary to existing method.

First of all, I think that we should clarify a few points concerning the audience of jPod.
I’m not sure that we all share the same goal.

• A - Some seems to be travellers just trying to get some survival phrases at hand. No need to point out that grammar or anything else should be necessary.
• B - Some are interested for a better understanding of Japanese culture, done by Japanese people. Still no need for anything else.
• C - Some seem to already have Japanese teachers.
I’m actually very interested by the views of young people coming home after a day at schools and still practicing their Japanese with jPod
• D - Some (as I am) just wish to learn Japanese, the best way they can, having in the same time a professional and family life. (And thanks to you Friday listener, practising my English in the same time)

I think that the discussion is more about C and D cases.

But first I’d like to tell you about my previous experiences of learning languages, and I think that a lot of people here share the same mishaps.

A few years ago I started to learn Russian. I learned a lot of vocabulary, a lot of grammar, heard a lot Russian through the lessons. I finished the method, actually a good one. After having about 100 lessons, I bought a VCR tape of a Russian movie (Yes I know it was a long time ago, before Internet …).
I was so happy to have that tape that I immediately put it in my VCR and played it.
And then …
Nothing .
Or close to nothing. I even thought it wasn’t the same language I was trying to learn. The pronunciation was so different, the way to speak so quick compare to the one in the method. I knew the grammar, new the words, but I wasn’t able to grasp a single word. I know it may come from me, but I think I can share this experience with a lot of non native English speakers here when they first try to watch our so loved Anglo-Saxon movies. (By the way I just tried ‘little Britain’ from BBC and that was great)

When I discovered jPod two month ago, I immediately switch to the current lesson just to have a glimpse of the way they were talking. And I have been quiet surprise to hear them. That sounded (I can’t rally be sure) real Japanese, so I started with a first lesson and then catched up.

It’s seems to me that jPod stress the language and then point out the grammar when needed, when other methods create text based on a grammar point they want to stress. What surprised me is that I was able to use a few Japanese words when a Japanese couple asks me their way to the Louvre. That was build up sentences, simple words, but what a fun (Ok ok, we switch very quickly to English ).
So I think that jPod doesn’t abide by the traditional linguistic rules, and are trying to build up something from a more natural experience. A bit as a baby learns his own language from his parents (I wonder having peter and Natsuko as parents )

Then, when I’m trying to write Japanese (please try the jpod forum 日本語を練習しましょう) I get my grammar book, jpod dictionary and I go on. I’m using the grammar ‘Japanese basic grammar dictionnary’, any other suggestions ?

So it might be longer that way, but you know what, I have time and it is so funny.

[Fridaylistener]

Danmont

I teach science. You have written A,B,C and D possibilities but I don´t feel I am discussing about the target audience of jpod and never tried to do it. My interest is the way a language is taught here.

It seems that you are very fast catching what you call “real Japanese”. I have spent quite a lot of time with this language and I still don´t know precisely what´s real Japanese and what´s prefabricated though I already know the difference between colloquial and polite versions of the language. It looks like you call real to fluid and easygoing conversations, I don´t know.

Your bad experience with Russian seems to be a case of unrealistic expectations about the language and not an example of a bad method. I used the same method as you to learn English but once I finished with it I went on with other books and materials because I was really interested about this language and wanted to pass the proficiency exams. Some years after that, I started to watch movies. The English “served” in that method were, of course, prefabricated but I have good memories of it because it gave what it promised. If you expect to watch Japanese movies using jpod, please, be patient because with 10 minutes a day you will need 10 or 15 years.

Stressing grammar, if it is done properly, is for me synonymous with stressing language and I don´t see any difference between them. Whether you like it or not, you will have to learn grammar if you want to read in this language and the sooner you do it, the better and faster will be your learning. Jpod is full of grammar “allergics” and I feel sorry for them.

The natural way of learning a language is one of the most used and heard metaphors when this issue is taken on and it is used to justify everything. Believe me, please, only children have the privilege to learn naturally and adults aren´t children. Read any book about the subject and they will tell you what I am telling you (if that´s not the case, they are trying to sell you something). Our brain works in a different way and our approach has to be different. There is only a way to learn a language: practicing and being in contact with it in the most meaningful way possible way. How to do this is up to you, your time, your goals… I think that if you expect natural ways to learn Japanese you should leave this language (at least if you want to read it) and spend your time on something better. The task is huge and only time and love for this language can help to overcome it.

I have forgotten the webs I used to learn the kanas and the basic Japanese and they aren´t already in my favorites list but I think it is enough 2 or 3 hours “googling” to find what you want. Kanji-a-day.com for instance is a good way to practice (and, as far as I know, you can do there your own wordbank for free) but the best you can do is write notebook after notebook of words and sentences. Your eyesight won´t suffer so much and, otherwise, remember a vocabulary of thousands of words will be much more difficult.

[DanMont]

Hi friday listener,
I don't really have the time to answer you now, but I would like you to show me someting of what you know. Japanese or other languages.
I really think you can, but I'm just beginning to wonder.
Is french your first language ?

[Fridaylistener]

Danmont

What do you think I know? Why do you want me to show you what I may or may not know?

I read in 5 languages and French is one of them but it is not my mother tongue.

[DanMont]

Really Friday listener, you got to show me something real.
I’m just beginning to wonder if RobGillon is right.
I really hope you do read (write/speak I hope) those languages and I think you do, but for the moment I need a little more.

[Fridaylistener]

I don´t know who is RobGrillon. It seems that you are not interested in going on with this dialogue. There´s nothing more real than my messages and I don´t know what do you mean by “showing something real”. I never ever mention personal matters on public places like this if this is what you mean. If you don ´t want to go on speaking about the subject on this lounge (japanesepod vs traditional methods was the title chosen by you) please, don´t answer my posts

[DanMont]

What i meant by real things is just some sentences in those 5 languages.
Or at least one, please just one, don't tell me I just wasted my time.

[Fridaylistener]

Why do I need to prove what I say? I don´t have any doubt about what you say (though I obviously don´t know if it is true or not) and I am not worried if, for instance, your experiences with Russian were real or not. Let´s imagine I say “I am John Smith from Denver, Colorado” (I am making it up) Would I be then more real?. Apart from that, why do you feel you may have wasted your time? I repeat again, if you don´t want to speak about jpod or teaching methods, please, don´t answer the posts.

[DanMont]

Dommage.

What a pity.
Anyway, I enjoyed it in the beginning.

[Fridaylistener]

OK, Danmont, you don´t want to go on because you think I may be unreal? That´s very funny. If you don´t have confidence on places likes this you shouldn´t have started this discussion. I can understand now why you feel you are losing your time.

I remember very well the “c´est dommage” that I was taught during my High School years and I guess we are closer than you may think.

Wherever you are, take care and good luck

Hugs.

[Jason]

もう、いつまでこのばかばかしいスレッドを続けるつもり？何の理由があるのか？時間の無駄だ。何のためにこのスレッドを止めないか教えてくれなかったら、私はもうすぐ止める。じゃ、答えは？

What in sam hill is the point of this thread, anyway? Unless someone can give me a reason, a GOOD reason, not to close this thread, it will be locked. And soon.

[The Frankensteiner]

I gotta admit I have no clue what they're on about either.

[DanMont]

Jason, The Frankensteiner,
that's ok for me,
it was a just a sad mistake.

[Jason]

Then with that, this thread is now locked.