Get rid of romaji in Intermediate and Advanced lessons

[Knocks]

I think people who take studying Japanese seriously will agree with me on this one. I think romaji hinders the learning process (even on beginner levels)--it gets into your head and is hard to stop imagining Japanese words in romaji later in your studies.

While romaji is a relatively minor nuisance (and can arguably be helpful) on Newbie and Beginner levels, it is completely redundant and it's patronizing to your users to continue using it in your Intermediate and Advanced lesson PDFs. These courses are not designed for beginners, and a person who has advanced that far has already mastered at the very least hiragana.

Seriously guys, this is counterproductive. You may say, well, just don't look at the romaji section, but personally when I am learning new kanji I cannot help but to glance at the romaji column. It's so ridiculous that I have to cover it up with my hand in order to avoid looking at it, because as an English speaker it's natural for me to look at the most familiar alphabet for help. The same goes for the grammar review sections. Romaji has no place there whatsoever.

Feel free to discuss here and at your next meeting

[Neil53]

I understand your concerns, but I still find the romaji to be helpful.

[Javizy]

I understand your concerns, but I still find the romaji to be helpful.

That's because you can't read kanji and kana as fast as you can romaji. In terms of learning Japanese, it's not helpful at all, it's just convenient. What would be helpful is learning to read kanji/kana as easily as you can read romaji, and the quickest way to do that is to throw romaji out of the window and let it bleed a slow and painful death on the cold winter pavement, which would still be better than it deserves.

I agree with Knocks, and sympathise completely, but it's unlikely it will be removed, since the PDF's are a product that needs to reach as wide an audience as possible. Unfortunately, included in that audience are a lot of shortsighted or just plain idiotic people who believe it is practical/efficient to learn Japanese without learning the writing system. I can't comprehend that level of stupidity either, but it's the reason romaji remains in the PDF's and a lot of good intermediate textbooks.

[Psy]

It doesn't really matter how much you preach, there will always be arguments on both sides of this one. I guess it comes down to what you want out of the language-- personally, I like being able to understand what I'm looking at in a scene such as this:



Yes, it was hard work, but I don't regret it.

[Knocks]

There are no arguments on both sides. Show me one person who has reached Upper Intermediate and doesn't know the kanas yet.

Look, no one's asking them to nix the kanas in Beginner lessons. If they want to reach a wide audience, fine. But not Upper Intermediate, for Pete's sakes (no pun intended).

[michael1228279]

I agree. Romaji should be only used for beginners who don't know kana. I actually think it probably shouldn't even be used even for beginners who have already gone over hiragana & katakana because usage of the characters is the key to learning them. Relying on romaji (even as a crutch until you are perfect at kana) is counterproductive.

Personally, I think it would be better primarily because I won't be using the extra ink when I print out lesson notes, but I don't have a big problem ignoring the romaji because I think it is easier to read Japanese.

It is kind of similar to reading Japanese with no kanji. I've heard people say that kan'ji should be done away with and just use the kanas because it would be easier... I wonder if these people have ever tried to actually decipher Japanese without the kanji. Memorizing them takes a lot of work, but man do they help.

Well, enough of my ramblings, but that's my 二セント.

[stuart_jukes]

no no no....sorry but no.

You can call me "stupid" or whatever you like. However, while I agree that of course you pretty much "have" to learn to read and write I and many others find it a distraction while trying to understand and absorb a new concept to have to first translate into something you can understand. I know this from our class (year 3 and above). Yes, we can read and do so well enough when we have to (reading and writing exercises ). For"grammar" comprehension forget it, it just gets in the way.
I read the PDF's here because they are concise and easy to understand. I have books that say the same in in kana and kanji..but dont bother to use them. If I WANT a reading exercise I will do one so please don't try your "I can read so you lot had better do so too" snobbery.

[QuackingShoe]

I would like to take a moment to thank you for the most hilarious post of the New Year.

[Javizy]

no no no....sorry but no.

You can call me "stupid" or whatever you like. However, while I agree that of course you pretty much "have" to learn to read and write I and many others find it a distraction while trying to understand and absorb a new concept to have to first translate into something you can understand. I know this from our class (year 3 and above). Yes, we can read and do so well enough when we have to (reading and writing exercises ). For"grammar" comprehension forget it, it just gets in the way.
I read the PDF's here because they are concise and easy to understand. I have books that say the same in in kana and kanji..but dont bother to use them. If I WANT a reading exercise I will do one so please don't try your "I can read so you lot had better do so too" snobbery.

The PDF grammar section is written in English. That isn't what people are complaining about. You can pretty much take your post back if that's what you meant, but it's a different story if you're also referring to the audio transcript/vocabulary. At an intermediate level, you shouldn't even be relying on the English there, let alone romaji.

You could try finding some reading materials at your level, if you don't do anything outside of the classroom. It's good to get exposure to the language as it is really used. I've never done any reading exercises, and I can understand your negative opinion if that's your idea of reading Japanese. It's as fun as you make it.

[stuart_jukes]

My point was that it is obviously wrong for someone to state that "romaji hinders the learning process". Romaji if anything can only slow down "part" of the process.

I also take offence both for myself and others it may be aimed at to statements like this .".. included in that audience are a lot of shortsighted or just plain idiotic people who believe it is practical/efficient to learn without learning the writing system. I can't comprehend that level of stupidity either, but it's the reason romaji remains in the PDF's ".
Is this person a trained educator ? I doubt it. Different people have different requirements and pace and for one person to effectively state that what is good for him should be good for everyone else is just wrong and seems to be borne out in the fact that the best reference materials for language are almost exclusively rendered in Romaji.

Of course being able to read and write the target language is at some stage necessary (but not compulsary ) but it annoys me greatly when those who have taken the time to learn assume that everyone else should be compelled to follow the same method used by themselves while simultaneously deriding other efforts.

[Knocks]

stuart_jukes: You have no right to participate in this thread until you have reached intermediate or advanced level, because that's what the discussion concerns, and I really doubt you are anything above beginner, regardless of how many years you claim to have spent in class.

がんばってね！

[Belton]

play nice please,( lest you incur the wrath of the moderators.) .

Anyone can contribute to any thread on these boards. And use any lessons they want and try to contribute to them and discuss them.
What is required is that they stay more or less on topic and be civil.

If you disagree with someone it's best to criticise their ideas not the person themselves. (ad hominem attack)

I don't especially care one way or another on whether jPod uses romaji or not. It's just a writing system. Being able to read and write is definitely useful but not essential for learning a language. There *are* people who concentrate on listening and speaking over reading and writing.

I'd prefer jPod101 to be inclusive rather than exclusive.
Maybe it could offer two sets of pdfs. And look at the downloads to see what the demand might be. Or just change the formatting so the romaji is on a separate page that can be ignored by those that don't want it.
I suspect all the pdfs are auto generated so the second solution could be site wide with only the template having to be re-written.

[mslozada]

For this reason, I '' only '' download and use the audio files and '' NEVER '' download pdf's. Japanesepod101. com was (only) actually made and designed for I-pod ( mp3's ) so you can listen while walking, on th train, or whatever reason. If you came here to study grammar or do some reading practices/ ( written ) exercise, this is not the place for you.

Thumb's up soldier

[jkid]

This is just a friendly reminder to everyone that, as Belton states this forum is intended as a platform for discussion between all members of Japanesepod101. Please try to respect others' opinions and only criticise where doing so would be constructive.

Thanks

[Knocks]

Japanesepod101. com was (only) actually made and designed for I-pod ( mp3's ) so you can listen while walking, on th train, or whatever reason.

That is incorrect. Japanesepod101 is intended as a diverse language learning solution (and continuously adding additonal tools), and learning vocab and kanji is an important part of it.

If you came here to study grammar or do some reading practices/ ( written ) exercise, this is not the place for you.

I bet thousands of listeners, as well as instructors, will disagree. And those short conversations are awesome for reading practice.

play nice please,( lest you incur the wrath of the moderators.) .

Anyone can contribute to any thread on these boards. And use any lessons they want and try to contribute to them and discuss them.

What's inconsiderate and rude is for a beginner student to interfere in the business that's related to advanced lessons and discussing which requires an advanced student's perspective. It's like a freshman crashing a senior student body meeting and trying to tell them what to do.