Practice Your Japanese Through Conversation

[Alan]

ディクショナリ　から：
肝心要 [かんじんかなめ] [kanjinkaname] - (adj-na,n) the main point.

でも　ときどき、あの　ディクショナリ　は　うそ　で　おかしい　でしょう。

I found "kanjinkaname" in the Japanese-Japanese part of my electronic dictionary eventually

だいめいし　が　ありません　ので,　むずかしい　です。

「Since a pronoun exists, it is difficult」と　読みした　あなた　は。

"Since there is no pronoun, it is difficult (to understand Japanese sometimes, I'm coming to realize)."

Oops, forgot the negative tense

ときどき、にほんご　を　おそく　かんがえる　ねばならぬ　です。

"Sometimes, [I] slowly think about japanese [.] nebanarame desu."

nebanarai [narame] => nakereba naranai = must do/got to do
I think 'nebanarame desu' must mean '[I'll] persevere.

Is there a verb ending that means "to have to do"?
「I have to return home」 = かえりー？

「返らなければ　成りません」と　思います。

'-nakereba narimasen' = must, have to
i.e. literally 'If I don't <verb> not becomes' - not doing it isn't possible.'

Actually, now I look again, you've already (sort of) used it.
nebanarai [narame] => nakereba naranai = must do/got to do
i.e. literally 'if I don't, not become'
とても　難しい　です。頭　が　痛い　です。

There's also
'-nakute [wa] ikemasen/dame desu' = Obligational: must, have to
i.e. literally 'not <verb> and therefore not able to go/impossible.

I'm not sure about the subtle differences here, but the second looks a little stronger.
At the rate we're getting through the bits in my grammar book, that I haven't read, there'll be none left soon

疲れました。止まらなければ　成りません。テレビ見たいです。
アラン

[Bueller_007]

I found "kanjinkaname" in the Japanese-Japanese part of my electronic dictionary eventually

This word isn't used so much, so don't worry about it.

I realize Metablue first brought up the word. You should both probably be using 要旨, 要点, 重点, etc. instead, depending on the context.

edict has conveniently marked the most commonly used 20,000 words in the Japanese language. Whenever possible, you should avoid straying outside of this list when you're first learning the language. Otherwise your vocab will be really lopsided and you'll sound weird.

nebanarai [narame] => nakereba naranai = must do/got to do
I think 'nebanarame desu' must mean '[I'll] persevere.

nebanaraNai. (Forgot the "n".)
nebanaraNU. (This is a "nu", not a "me".)

As you stated, it is merely a contraction of なければならない.
nakerebanaranai
The alternate "-nu" ending is the same as "nai".
For example: 見知らない人　ー＞　見知らぬ人 (stranger)

「返らなければ　成りません」と　思います。

'-nakereba narimasen' = must, have to
i.e. literally 'If I don't <verb> not becomes' - not doing it isn't possible.'

Actually, now I look again, you've already (sort of) used it.
nebanarai [narame] => nakereba naranai = must do/got to do

i.e. literally 'if I don't, not become'
とても　難しい　です。頭　が　痛い　です。

An easier (casual) way to say this is to use the negative form, plus と:
帰らないと。(I have to go home.)

It's short-hand for:
帰らないといけない。(If I don't go home, it will be "bad".)

And one final note, watch your kanji... 帰る = "to go home" (of people), 返る = "to return to its original position" (of things). Same pronunciation & conjugation, different kanji, different meaning. (Ah, the joys of kanji!)

Otherwise, good stuff.

[Alan]

ブエラさんは訂正しました。だから有難うございます。面白くて楽しいです。
アラン

[metablue]

ときどき、にほんご　を　おそく　かんがえる　ねばならぬ　です。

"Sometimes, [I] slowly think about japanese [.] nebanarame desu."

nebanarai [narame] => nakereba naranai = must do/got to do
I think 'nebanarame desu' must mean '[I'll] persevere.

That probably is what I said, but I was going for:
"Sometimes I have to slowly consider the Japanese."

What I would have said if I could speak more Japanese is:
"Sometimes I have to think about it for a very long time before I can understand it."
(but then I probably wouldn't have needed to ^^)

ただしいにほんご？：
ときどき、にほんご　を　おそく　かんがえない　と。

I realize Metablue first brought up the word. You should both probably be using 要旨, 要点, 重点, etc. instead, depending on the context.

edict has conveniently marked the most commonly used 20,000 words in the Japanese language.

ほんとう？どこですか？

I don't know enough words to express myself yet, so I just grab things from the dictionary where necessary. I haven't seen those markings though. That would be useful.

I figure it's better to say something stupid while you're learning than to say nothing. As my singing teacher said, you have to be able to make a loud ugly noise before you can learn to make a loud beautiful noise.

いま　しごと　で(?)　おそい　です。；；
じゃ　ね。

[Jason]

おはようございます、皆さん。 ^_^ お元気ですか。私は元気です。。。と言いたいが、まだ眠いです。-_- みんなで昼寝しましょう。zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

ここに何か面白いことを書こうと思っていたが、何も思いつけません。こんなことが下手なんだから。誰かのポストに返事するのはいいが、新しいトピックを作るのはこんなに難しいなんて。なぜ？もう。問題は日本語じゃありませんよ。英語でも下手です。;_;

[metablue]

いま　しごと　で(?)　おそい　です。；；

で　ー＞　には？

「いま　しごと　には　おそい」と　ただしい　ですか？

いま　ちょう　おそい　です！

[Jason]

ただしいにほんご？：
ときどき、にほんご　を　おそく　かんがえない　と。

「遅い」は確かに「slow」という意味しているけど、ここに使うとちょっと違います。「slow」より、「carefully」の方がいいでしょう？じゃ、これはどう？

日本語がわかるために、私は時々じっくり考えって、時間がずいぶんかかる必要です。

私なら、多分ここで「〜なければならない」を使いません。「〜なければならない」というのは「obligation, duty, "if I don't do this it'll be bad"」の感じです。メタブルーさんが言いたがっている意味とちょっと違うと思います。確かに、英語で「I have to spend a lot of time to understand Japanese」のようなことを言います。だが、この「have to」は日本語では「To understand Japanese, it's neccessary for me to spend a lot of time」の感じだと思います。わかりますか。

[Alan]

おはようございます、皆さん。 ^_^ お元気ですか。私は元気です。。。と言いたいが、まだ眠いです。-_- みんなで昼寝しましょう。zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

私も眠いです。昨晩眠りません。

ここに何か面白いことを書こうと思っていたが、何も思いつけません。こんなことが下手なんだから。誰かのポストに返事するのはいいが、新しいトピックを作るのはこんなに難しいなんて。なぜ？もう。問題は日本語じゃありませんよ。英語でも下手です。;_;

「What interesting thing lets write here I'm thinking, what thought also to add. That's why this is unskillful. Regarding who's post to answer is good but... How difficult in this kind of thing, to make a new new topic. Why? Again. The problem is [the] japanese doesn't exist! However english is unskillful.」　と　読みました　と　思います。

難しさは持つと思いました。私もっと難しさ持っています。

新しいトピックが欲しいですか。　このトピックハ長くて溜まりませんですか。

アラン

[Jason]

ブー！外れ。翻訳はほとんど違う。もう一回やってみる？

[Alan]

ブー！外れ。翻訳はほとんど違う。もう一回やってみる？

"Boo! failed. Translation is different almost. Again, another round do and see?"

勿論。

Version 2 after checking out 'nan ka', 'nan mo', 'dare ka' & spotting that I'd split some of the words in the wrong places. Any better?

"Let's write something interesting here, I'm thinkng, but I can think of nothing. Therefore this kind of thing is unskillful. To answer somebody's post is good but how difficult to make a new topic in this kind of thing. Why? Ignorance. The problem is there is no Japanese! But English is unskillful."

Edit: Spotted another error. I read 'de mo' as 'demo' which is wrong.
So the last sentence should be 'In English is also unskillful.'

Edit2: A bit more polishing:

"Let's write something interesting here, I'm thinkng, but I can think of nothing. Therefore this kind of thing lacks skill. To answer somebody's post is good but how difficult to make a new topic in this kind of thing. Why? Ignorance. The problem is lack of Japanese! [But posting] in English is also unskillful."

[metablue]

ここに何か面白いことを書こうと思っていたが、何も思いつけません。こんなことが下手なんだから。誰かのポストに返事するのはいいが、新しいトピックを作るのはこんなに難しいなんて。なぜ？もう。問題は日本語じゃありませんよ。英語でも下手です。;_;

No kana entry for me at work ;; Here's what I think Jason-san was saying:

"I'm thinking I'd like to write something interesting here. But I can't think of anything. This is a little bad. To reply to someone's post is ok, but it's hard to start a new topic, isn't it. Why? Well. The problem is, it doesn't benefit your Japanese. English isn't as good (for practising Japanese). "

ie rather than posting in a huge half-Japanese half-English thread, we'd be better off also starting new, simpler conversations in other threads and keeping them pure.

[metablue]

「遅い」は確かに「slow」という意味しているけど、ここに使うとちょっと違います。「slow」より、「carefully」の方がいいでしょう？じゃ、これはどう？

"意味している" か "意味しっている" ?

"I know that 'osoi' can certainly be used to mean 'slow', but here, the way you're using it is somewhat different. 'carefully' is a better way than 'slow', right? Is that the case?"

Argh. しごと が めしだす. じゃね.

[Jason]

"意味している" か "意味しっている" ?

この場合は、「意味している」。英語で「(it) means...」といいます。

じゃ、私の翻訳を見せてあげます。

ここに何か面白いことを書こうと思っていたが、何も思いつけません。こんなことが下手なんだから。誰かのポストに返事するのはいいが、新しいトピックを作るのはこんなに難しいなんて。なぜ？もう。問題は日本語じゃありませんよ。英語でも下手です。;_;

"I was thinking of writing something interesting here, but I couldn't think of anythng. I'm bad at this kind of thing. Replying to someone's post is ok, but making a new topic is hard! Why? Geez. They problem isn't Japanese*. I'm bad at it even in English."

*note that's じゃありません not just ありません.

[metablue]

Wow. This translating is like a Rorschach test.

*note that's じゃありません not just ありません.

Eep! Parse error!
(じゃあ ) = O shiru
(ありません) = O shiru
shikashi...
(じゃ(あ ) りません) = X shiru

じゃありません is the same structure as じゃnai? But rather than "is not" it means "does not exist"?

And ... um ... ?
屍蝋 [しろう] [shirou] - (n) adipocere, grave wax (greying of the body fats of a corpse which rests in a moist but airless place).

[metablue]

日本語がわかるために、私は時々じっくり考えって、時間がずいぶんかかる必要です。

"In order for me to understand Japanese, I sometimes carefully think about it, and a huge amount of time is required."

私なら、多分ここで「〜なければならない」を使いません。「〜なければならない」というのは「obligation, duty, "if I don't do this it'll be bad"」の感じです。メタブルーさんが言いたがっている意味とちょっと違うと思います。確かに、英語で「I have to spend a lot of time to understand Japanese」のようなことを言います。だが、この「have to」は日本語では「To understand Japanese, it's neccessary for me to spend a lot of time」の感じだと思います。わかりますか。

Essentially:
You wouldn't use the 「〜なければならない」construction in this case because it has a sense of ぎり to it. Whereas what I was saying has a slightly different nuance. In English it's normal to say "have to". But this "have to" would be expressed in Japanese as「To understand Japanese, it's neccessary for me to spend a lot of time」.

せいかい？