And?

[bob1777]

Hi All, 've got a question about し,て and たり.
I think they kind of mean the same, e.g. "I do something and something ... "but anyway, I'm not sure what the difference really is.
(!! mistakes possible below, so becareful if you learn from that!!)

毎日　ともだちに　会ったり　ばんごはんを　食べたり　します。

毎日　ともだちに　会って　ばんごはんを　食べます。

毎日　ともだちに　会うし　ばんごはんを　食べます。


Many thanks for comments,

[Jason]

The nuances behind these three are quite different. Be sure to remember that because they're not interchangable without changing the meaning of the sentence.

毎日　ともだちに　会ったり　ばんごはんを　食べたり　します。

The ～たりする form means "to do stuff like..." It implies that what you list isn't exhaustive. So if you said:

今日、私は洗濯したり、電話で友達と話したり、本を読んだりします。

This says, "Today I'll do laundry, talk to friends on the phone, and read a book (among other things)." If you say this, you imply that you'll do other stuff too, not just what you list. It's similar to using や to list nouns, but with verbs.

BTW, ～たり also has a couple of other useful uses. You can use it with the affirmative and negative form of the verb or adjective to mean "sometimes it is...sometimes it's not..." Note that you end this construction with だ or です and not する or します.

私は昼ごはんを食べたり、食べなかったりです。
"Sometimes i eat breakfast, sometimes I don't."

You can also use it with a pair of verbs whose meanings are relative or contrastive to express that they alternate.

緊張している学生は座ったり、立って歩き回ったりしました。
"The nervous college student kept sitting down then getting up and pacing around."

毎日　ともだちに　会って　ばんごはんを　食べます。

When you use the te-form as "and", it does imply that your list is exhaustive. "I'll meet my friends today, and we'll eat supper (and that's all we're going to do)." It also implies that you did/will do the things in the order you list them. So your sentence implies that you first meet your friends, then eat. ～たりする does not imply the order the actions take place in like this. This is close to using と to list nouns, but with verbs and adjectives.

毎日　ともだちに　会うし　ばんごはんを　食べます。

～し is used to list reasons for something. I really don't think it works in your sentence here. Here's an example:

もう遅いし、私は帰ります。

"It's already late, so I'll be going home."

[bob1777]

Thanks Jason for detailed explanation. Very clear. I also did not know about たり usage with です, or や with nouns .

Actually し is the one I had most doubts about. Is that only for 'connected reasoning'? Can I have more examples of that..?

[Jason]

or や with nouns .

Yes, if you use や instead of と to "and" nouns together, it means you're not listing everything.

私は音楽やゲームや木が好（す）きです。
"I like music, games, and trees (among other things)."

Actually し is the one I had most doubts about. Is that only for 'connected reasoning'? Can I have more examples of that..?

Yes, I believe so. It's not a "general purpose and" like the te-form is. Though I understand it when it's used, I'm actually not too clear on the difference between it and constructions like ～から　and ～ので to explain reason, so I'll let someone else cover that. し does seem to shift some of the emphasis to the reason instead of the conclusion.

学校に行きたくない。眠いし、外は寒いし。
"I don't want to go to school. I'm sleepy and it's cold outside."

[kinoko]

actually, たり IS supposed to be used with する. And it's basically the same thing as や, but for verbs.

this page should say that somewhere.

edit//
gah, it seems like I forgot to read the majority of your post... Gomen nasai!

[Jason]

actually, たり IS supposed to be used with する. And it's basically the same thing as や, but for verbs.

this page should say that somewhere.

Yes, but it can also be used with だ/です though it changes the meaning.