How do Japanese internalize what they hear

[istephenyu8790]

I understand that many natives don't need to internalize because it's all second nature as english is for me. But when I try to listen to audio, should I visualize the kana being spoken, repeat what was just said in my mind?

Also, specifically when a speaker is saying a big number at normal speed, do you tend to visualize the numbers, is there a tendency to filter out the non-number words.

So if someone said さんびゃっく七十六円　would you think

300
70
6

or... 3 ...7 ....6 ... (filtering) all other words, arriving at 376 at the end.

I always find myself reverting to english to get the number.

[community.japanese]

istephenyu8790-san,
if I could give you any possible advice, not as J-Pod native staff but as multi-lingual speaker/learner,
I don't really think you need to visualise kana when you hear Japanese word/sentence.
However, it's also possible that you should visualise certain characters if it's on word basis, not phrase or sentence.
As you might know, there're many homophenes with different kanji; even as native speaker, I might
have visual image of kanji for certain word...it doesn't mean you have to, in order to understand the sentence.
It's just possible. It's something that pops up in your mind, right?

As to the numbers.....I'm really seriously rubbish in numbers
I think I even have "automatic response" against numbers, such as "allergy" as I always say...
So, when I'm actually talking with Japanese, IN Japanese which is my native language, my brain just stops
or at least slows. So, personally, I do visualise with aid of "sound remains" in my head.
As method, I'd rather visualise or "leave in my mind" those digits "3, 7, 6" not as "300" or "70".

This number-related issue is something I personally want to improve, so I'd love to hear from many
listeners how you all are dealing with numbers in other languages.
Starting with you, istephenyu8790-san; when you hear numbers in Japanese, do you bother yourself to
convert "all" the details in English? Like "three hundred seventy six" or do you use "visual memory in mind"
with "three, seven, six"?
How does that work? Does convert to English disturb in any way to think Japanese or your "Japanese mode" in brain?


Natsuko(奈津子),
Team JapanesePod101.com

[istephenyu8790]

Very interesting Natsuko!

So far I too have been remembering the remnants of the sounds of the sounds and just repeat the remnants in my head after the sentence is finished. Of course that usually doesn't help if the speaker is still saying something else after. But it is very helpful and reinforces the number.

Sometimes I focus on the context and come up with an estimate of what number they are going to say, so predict that the number is going to be in the 100's or hyaku's. But that is usually is hard to tell if one has trouble is listening to audio and doesn't know what was going on in the context beforehand.

Whenever a speaker in an audio says a 5 digit dollar value with no zeroes, i can listen to that thing multiple times and not get or remember the whole thing. In that case, the most effective is the filtering, where I just try to get only the "numbers" and not the digit place. But that tends to backfire when the digit place represents the number, like hyaku and sen representing 100 and 1000.

I guess for big numbers I'm trying harder to visualize the number in my head as I do in english. When someone says seven million, five thousand, three hundred twenty one, its cumbersome to think of the million, thousand, and easier to just think of the placeholders --> so like _ , _ _ _ , _ _ _ . so we just put 7 , 0 0 5 , 3 2 1. so in other words the commas really organizes the thought of the numbers. Unfortunately, in the process of writing this i realize now its harder to visualize the numbers in japanese because of this lack of organization. there's no period that separates the lowest two digits for cents. So something like $150.50 is already too much to handle from a japanese number system as that would be seen as 15050 instead.

So far, my way of improving is simply to look at every day time and numbers and read them out loud in japanese and think of them in my head in japanese. and i monitor my progress in saying the number immediately and effortlessly.

So in summary...
1. predict the number's magnitude if possible
2. If given time, simply repeat the sound's remnants
3. Speak out the numbers, and try to say it in the normal speed that you hear others speak it.
4. Try visualization?
5. If no zeroes five digit number... gg

On a last note, I would just try to find as many resources to get practice. While Jpod101 does provide practice for hearing numbers, if you really want to get even better, you have to really dig everywhere on the internet to really improve, especially if you're just self-learning the language with no native to speak to, like me. Try to get some japanese coins and bills and count them, to get another visualization learning too.

Edit: Forgot to answer the last question! now I am more able to block out the english when thinking of the numbers. But before, it was rather annoying having to convert back to english. And whenver i look at the numerical numbers, i associate them with the english words rather than japanese. It definitely slowed the process of figuring out the number.
Japanese word --> English translation --> visual numeric number
now its more of japanese word --> visual numeric number.

[community.japanese]

istephenyu8790-san,
thank you very much for a long post!!

Wow, it seems you've got a very good "system" to process numbers!
You're rightl; Japanese "unit" in big numbers works differently and this might be one of the reasons
that make "numbers" more difficult.
Even for this reason, not thinking in English is definitely the better way and you're now doing that; brilliant!

Practice with coins and bank notes....that's a great idea!
It's true that J-Pod lessons have limited time, and maybe we need to practice by ourselves too other than
those practices offered at J-Pod

Your post is very interesting and I'm sure other listeners will also appreciate sharing
Speaking with visualisation....Great topic!!

Natsuko(奈津子),
Team JapanesePod101.com

[toshimarise]

Thanks for the advice about visualizing kanji with vocab, Natsuko-sensei. And for the numbers advice, istephenyu8790-san.

Hearing Japanese numbers spoken at normal speed is really hard for me too! It's good to hear I'm not alone.

You're right that we have to practice outside of jpod, Natsuko-sensei, but it would be cool to have a lesson on jpod only to practice hearing numbers in real conversation - phone numbers, big numbers like prices, and maybe addresses with those pesky block/lot numbers, too.

[community.japanese]

toshimarise-san,
you're very welcome
Thank you very much for the suggestion!
It definitely is a good idea; it's like a drill practice that listers can do on their spare time, right?
I'll share your opinion with my team and discuss about it! Thank you

Natsuko(奈津子),
Team JapanesePod101.com