分からんvs. わからない vs. わかねえ(Wakanee)

[urbanegloss2037]

こんいちわ皆!

first of all, what's the difference? I do know that "wakaranai"
is standard japanese but what about "分からん" and "わかねえ(Wakanee)
"

are they dialects? osaka ben or kansai ben?

what does this mean?


楽しいた(tanoshikata) ??

"楽しい" means enjoyable... so I was thinking it meant "it was enjoyable"??

any ideas?

thanks in advance.

[isaacsol]

I know that there are different negative forms of the indicative form. Wakaran is more informal than wakaranai, and wakaranu is even more informal (and rarely used in my experience). Wakaranee is one that I have not heard of, so I am not sure of what it is.

分からない
分からん
分からぬ
分からず (Normally followed by ni)

An example of the zu ending (I think, as I rarely use it so it may be wrong :S) is:

漢字を分からずに日本語が読まれません。
「Kanji wo wakarazu ni, nihongo ga yomaremasen.」
"Because I do not understand Kanji, I cannot read Japanese."

Tanoshikatta is the past of the adjective tanoshii. The past negative being Tanoshinakatta.

楽しかった = Tanoshikatta = was fun
楽しくなかった = Tanoshikunakatta = was not fun (Thanks to jotu for correcting me there)

If anyone noticed a mistake, please correct me >_<

I hope that helped you a bit more

[jotu]

not sure if the ai-->ee is specific to any dialect. always thought that it was lazy speak...
oh and the negative of tanoshii is tanoshikunai so the past negative is tanoshikunakatta

[Jessi]

"ai" can be replaced with "ee" in really rough, casual speech (mostly used by men). It can come across as rude so I don't recommend using it.

わからない →　わからねぇ

わからない can be shortened to わかんない、which can then become わかんねぇ.

I believe わからん is originally dialect, but I don't know exactly where it's from. It may be one of those expressions that started out as a dialect and then spread out.

[Jessi]

An example of the zu ending (I think, as I rarely use it so it may be wrong :S) is:

漢字を分からずに日本語が読まれません。
「Kanji wo wakarazu ni, nihongo ga yomaremasen.」
"Because I do not understand Kanji, I cannot read Japanese."

"Zuni" has the same meaning of the construction "naide", which wouldn't be used in this sentence. [Verb] + zuni\naide means "without doing [verb]", so something like:

朝ごはんを食べずに（食べないで）家を出ました。
Asagohan o tabezuni (tabenai de) ie o demashita.
I left home without eating breakfast.

Your sentence above could just be written:
漢字が分からないので日本語が読めません。
Kanji ga wakaranai no de nihongo ga yomemasen.
"I can't read Japanese because I don't know kanji."

[isaacsol]

Thank you, I have never been good with the zuni ending

[urbanegloss2037]

thanks to all the people who answered my question!

@isaacsol: wow.. I didn't know that there are diff. ways of saying it @__@'''

@Jessi: thanks for the explanation and examples! one question though,
in the example you gave, the one enclosed in the parenthesis is wrong?

* (tabenai de)

which one is correct? (tabenai de) or tabezuni? o.o

[Jessi]

Nope, they are just two ways of saying the same thing I would say that "naide" is used more common in daily conversation. "Zuni" you will see more often in written text and such.

[Javizy]

... wakaranu is even more informal (and rarely used in my experience).

It's not informal - it's actually an archaic form, which is why you won't hear it much outside of Edo. It's mainly limited to kotowaza, but I've seen it appear in some literature (possibly even newspapers), so it's definitely worth knowing.

As for 分からん, it's probably worth mentioning that you'll sound like an old man if you use it as part of a standard dialect.

@isaacsol: wow.. I didn't know that there are diff. ways of saying it @__@'''

How about kansai-ben's 分からへん