Some fairly difficult questions

[evizzle101]

Yes, I totally know what you mean about Japanese being a lot of "feeling"...Grammar sometimes seems to take a backseat to instinct, if that makes sense. I have a few more questions...(surprise surprise)

I know that 'no' nominalizes things, like "akai no" (the red ones), but when you're saying "This one," in English, in Japanese would "Kore no" be strange?

Also, what is the difference between hoka ni, hoka no, and igai? I struggle with this.

Lastly, how do you say "At least" when you're looking at the 'bright side' of things, if that makes sense. For example, "Well, at least you're okay!" Or something like this...that reminds me, how would you say "Well," I can't find this particular definition in my dictionaries.

Also, what's the difference between 現在　And 現代？

Also,　I often hear 話 in conversation, and in dictionaries it translates as "story" but the context that I always hear it in, "story" seems like an odd translation...anyone have something more accurate??

thats it for now (how do you say for now? haha guess it wasn't it)

[Jason]

I know that 'no' nominalizes things, like "akai no" (the red ones), but when you're saying "This one," in English, in Japanese would "Kore no" be strange?

Yes, it would. That's what この, その, あの, and どの are for. これ/それ/あれ/どれ are already pronouns. You can't nominalize them anymore. The only の you can use with them is the の of possession.

Also, what is the difference between hoka ni, hoka no, and igai? I struggle with this.

他に and 他の are pretty much the same in meaning and usage. 他 means "other" as in something else other than what you're talking about. 以外 means "with the exception of..." 他 and 以外 are completely different in meaning.

A; 他の方法はないの？ - "Isn't there another way?"
B: これ以外に、方法はない。 - "Except for this, there is no way"
====
A: この試験は信じられないよ。他のみんなはどうだった？ - "I can't believe this test! How did everyone else do?"
B: 全然ダメだった。彼以外に、誰も不合格だった。- "It was horrible. Everyone except for him failed."

Lastly, how do you say "At least" when you're looking at the 'bright side' of things, if that makes sense. For example, "Well, at least you're okay!" Or something like this...

I'm not sure there's an exact equivalent to this in Japanese. I would translate your example as just something like 「ま、無事でよかった。」

There is the word せめて, but it's more like "at the very least." I don't think it's the "at least" you're looking for here.

that reminds me, how would you say "Well," I can't find this particular definition in my dictionaries.

Since "well..." doesn't really have a well defined meaning in English, there are several Japanese expressions it can be very similar to. では/じゃ is similar to a "well" that's used to lead into something, like 「じゃ、私はもう帰ります」 or 「じゃ、また。」For the "well" that just acts as filler with no real meaning, it maps well to all of these: ま, あのう, そのう and variations.

Also, what's the difference between 現在　And 現代？

現在 is closer in meaning to "currently, recently." It's very similar to 最近 but it sounds more formal. 現代 is closer to "the modern age, the current times." It covers a much larger span of time.

Also,　I often hear 話 in conversation, and in dictionaries it translates as "story" but the context that I always hear it in, "story" seems like an odd translation...anyone have something more accurate??

It's usually in dictionaries as "story, conversation, talk, speech." It more abstractly means something like "something said/talked about." Its exact meaning changes depending on the context.

-今の話は本当？ - "Is that (what you're talking about now) true?"
-こういう話はあまり興味ない。 - "I'm not that interested in stories like this."
-何でもありません。こっちの話です。 - "It's nothing. Just talking to myself."

thats it for now (how do you say for now? haha guess it wasn't it)

"For now" is another phrase that has several nuances in English and doesn't map directly to one construct in Japanese. For example, your example of "that's it for now" I would translate as 「今回はここまでにしましょう」 which more literally means along the lines of "As for this time, lets end it here" but has the same kind of meaning as "that's all for now." And there are variations of this you can do that have the same kind of meaning.

For "for now" in the sense that something is tentative, there's the phrase 一応.

There are probably more "for now"s, but I can't think of anymore examples right now.

[Bueller_007]

I know that 'no' nominalizes things, like "akai no" (the red ones), but when you're saying "This one," in English, in Japanese would "Kore no" be strange?

"Kore" is already a noun. Adding "no" changes it into a possessive.

Also, what is the difference between hoka ni, hoka no, and igai?

Adverb, adjective, noun. "Igai" is not used in daily conversation as much as "hoka" and often times you'll find that "igai" follows other nouns, to mean "other than ~~".

Lastly, how do you say "At least" when you're looking at the 'bright side' of things, if that makes sense. For example, "Well, at least you're okay!" Or something like this...

"Sukunakutomo"

Dictionaries are good for this purpose. If you want to know how to say "at least" or "At least you..." just search in the dictionary at www.alc.co.jp

that reminds me, how would you say "Well," I can't find this particular definition in my dictionaries.

Case by case. Try the dictionary above.

Also, what's the difference between 現在　And 現代？

What's the difference between "now" or "the present" and "modern age" or "present times" in English?

Also,　I often hear 話 in conversation, and in dictionaries it translates as "story" but the context that I always hear it in, "story" seems like an odd translation...anyone have something more accurate??

If your dictionary only has the word "story" for 話, it's not worth the paper it's printed on. WWWJDIC is constantly improving. Try that dictionary as well.

"hanasu" is "to talk". "hanashi" is the noun form. That makes it any noun related to "talk", i.e., "talk", "conversation", "story", etc.

thats it for now (how do you say for now? haha guess it wasn't it)

Again, try that dictionary. In this case, probably "toriaezu".

[Jason]

Lastly, how do you say "At least" when you're looking at the 'bright side' of things, if that makes sense. For example, "Well, at least you're okay!" Or something like this...

"Sukunakutomo"

Forgot about that one.

[jkeyz15]

You you can use これの with the の acting as a generic noun. I can't say I've heard it (I may have), but it makes sense (kono no would too), and google shows a good amount of hits for both. I'm probably wrong though, too lazy to do any research. (it's late)

From some of your questions, I think you are trying to map out English to Japanese too much. I hate to tell you this, but it's destined to fail. (Tae kim mentions this too in the beginning of his guide)I may be wrong and you may not be translating, but my advice Try to stay away from English as much as possible. Don't think about trying to translate certain expressions or variations in English to Japanese or vice versa too much. Don't worry about such stuff. Japanese and English very rarely have word to word, expression to expression cross-overs. If you do not know how to say it without english, then stop, back up, and try to approach it from another way. If you still can't, go do some research, and come back to it again. English to Japanese is unavoidable at times, so try to limit it.

Also your confusion with some words, and differences between them seem to be due to relying on a EN-JP dictionary definitions too much as the meaning of the words. Even if you're Japanese is not that good yet, don't take out the English definitions as the word, think of it more as merely "translation suggestions." Try your best to read a Japanese dictionary.

I suggest to get Rikaichan (polarcloud.com) for firefox and use http://dic.yahoo.co.jp. You still have to rely on another language (english) to fully understand the definition. But you are getting a more encompassing definition in Japanese rather than English one-worders. This also helps with not translating to english in your head when listening to Japanese. And you learn many words, especially the frequent ones with this. One of the first words I learned when I started using yahoo was 動作(dousa).

With that said,
現在 is more like 今
現代 is kinda like 今 too but more of a 今の世

look at the <better than mine> definitions below
dic.yahoo.co.jp
げん‐だい【現代】
１ 現在の時代。今の世。当世。「―社会」
２ 歴史上の時代区分の一。ふつう、日本史では第二次大戦後の時代、世界史では第一次大戦後の時代をさす。
------
げん‐ざい【現在】
１ 過去と未来の間。過去から未来へと移り行く、今。また、近い過去や未来を含む、今。副詞的にも用いる。「数千年の時を経て―に至る」「―のところ見通しは立っていない」「―、出張中です」
２ （時間を表す語の下に付き、接尾語的に用いて）変化する物事の状態をある時点で区切って示すときの、その時点。「八月末日―の応募者数」
３ 現に存在すること。目の前にあること。「―する最重要課題」
４ （「現在の」の形で血縁関係などを表す語を修飾して）正真正銘の。まぎれもない。
５ （副詞的に用いて）明白な事実であるさま。また、近い将来そのことが実現するのが確実であるさま。
６ 仏語。三世(さんぜ)の一。今、生をうけているこの世。現世。
７ 文法の時制の一。今の時点での動作・状態など表すときに用いる形。現在形。


and 話

Ganbatte

[evizzle101]

It's not that I'm trying to translate from English, it's just that without conversation openers/fillers, I notice from personal experience that some conversations can be extremely stilted and awkward if you can't transition from one topic to another smoothly, I'm looking for similar equivalents, not direct translations. If I was looking for translations I'd be asking what "は" in English is. I realize the two are virtually nothing alike.

With the "kore" "Kono no", etc., I was just asking because I was thinking about a sentence such as "I like this one," but thinking about it more, wouldn't これが好きです。be more natural than anything else? So scratch that question, I think it was stupid. As for すくなくとも、what's the structure of this? Does it go at the beginning of the sentence?

Also, sorry to be redundant with the "difference between" questions, but could anyone explain the difference between 分かる　And　理解する

[jkeyz15]

oh...it just seemed like you were in a habit that I used to be in...hehe Nevermind then.


少なくとも is like a literal "at LEAST"
ALC to the rescue!
I can't really analyze the eptymology (sp?) but alc definitely shows the uses.

[Sorry IME broke]
wakaru means rikai, but rikai doesn't exactly mean wakaru. Wakaru is almost literallly "be/become clear" while rikai is more of a literal "understand/comprehend"

Check out the entries at dic.yahoo.co.jp and www.alc.co.jp

[evizzle101]

hmm, judging from ALC, 少なくとも seems like just another version of せめて...

Would 少なくとも be the appropriate context for...well, I'll give a situation.

Your friend had a horrible date with somebody but they paid the tab. You then say, "Well, at least you got a free meal!"...This kind of 'least.' My sensei doesn't really understand the English well enough to explain it to me in Japanese, so...its difficult to figure out.

[Bueller_007]

hmm, judging from ALC, 少なくとも seems like just another version of せめて...

Would 少なくとも be the appropriate context for...well, I'll give a situation.

Your friend had a horrible date with somebody but they paid the tab. You then say, "Well, at least you got a free meal!"...This kind of 'least.' My sensei doesn't really understand the English well enough to explain it to me in Japanese, so...its difficult to figure out.

Yes. You use "sukunaku to mo" in this situation.

As I said, if you search ALC for "at least you", you get some good example sentences.


At least you get a break from cooking. That's nice, isn't it?
すくなくとも、あなたは料理から解放されますよね、それはいいことじゃありませんか。

At least you can verify he was at the hotel.
少なくとも彼がホテルにいたかどうかは確かめられる。

Well, at least you tried it. So you did a good job.
ま、少なくとも食べてみたんだもん。よくやったね。

If they're still touring when you graduate, that'll be one more choice you can make. But at least you'll have some options.
あなたが卒業するときに彼らがまだツアーをしているなら、それもあなたが選べる選択肢の一つになるでしょう。でも、少なくとも、あなたは選択肢をいくつか得られるのです。

[evizzle101]

Hi everyone, it's me again...Three quick questions:

I just realized that I'm having a hard time differentiating passive and verb instransitive....for example 見つかる　ＶＳ．　見つけられる

Also, what is てか？i seem to hear it a lot...

Lastly, what is the difference between たくさん and 多い？

[Jason]

I just realized that I'm having a hard time differentiating passive and verb instransitive....for example 見つかる　ＶＳ．　見つけられる

(Someone might want to check me on this) If there is a separate intransitive "to be..." kind of verb already, like 見つかる vs 見つける, it's probably best to use that one as the passive. Something like 見つけられる would most likely be interpreted as the potential form rather than the passive.

Also, what is てか？i seem to hear it a lot...

Hard to say for sure without an example, but possibly short for ていうか?

Lastly, what is the difference between たくさん and 多い？

Meaningwise, they're the same. But たくさん is a bit more grammatically flexible.