Sotsugyou dekinai

[andycarmenjapanese8100]

Lower Intermediate, Series 5, Lesson 2:

Japanese:

Tamani wa, jugyō ni denai to, sotsugyō dekinai kara ne.

English:

'Cause If you don't show up to class every once in awhile, you can't graduate

I learned in the Gengo series that "dekiru" should be preceded by "koto ga". For example, "Watashi wa, oyogu koto ga dekiru" - "I can swim".

Why is "koto ga" not used in this sentence?

[ericf]

You need the nominalizer "koto" after a verb but not after a noun - a noun is already "nominalized". sotsugyou is a noun; the verb form of that would have been sotsugyou suru.

[andycarmenjapanese8100]

You need the nominalizer "koto" after a verb but not after a noun - a noun is already "nominalized". sotsugyou is a noun; the verb form of that would have been sotsugyou suru.

So why isn't "sotsugyou" in its verb form in this case? As far as I can tell, it is being used as a verb.

[ericf]

Well, both
sotsugyou dekinai
and
sotsugyou suru koto ga dekinai
are grammatically correct as far as I know, but I'm sure there'll be some nuance or subtle difference in meaning/usage that I don't know enough to explain. The latter sounds more long-winded/less common to me but that's just my hunch.

[mwbeale6642]

My understanding is that できる is the potential form of する。So when you are saying 卒業できない, you are directly using the potential form of 卒業する。This would be similar to saying 飲めない instead of 飲むことができない。

卒業 = そつぎょう = graduate
飲む = 飲む = drink

[community.japanese]

andy-san, エリックsan, mwbeale6642-san,
kon'nichiwa!
Thank you very much for helping each other! I love seeing constructive thread like this and
kind helps from fellow colleagues!

All very well explained by エリックsan and mwbeale6642-san, so I just want to add
that "sotsugyou" is a noun, and that's why you don't have to "nominalise".
Of course, "sotsugyou suru" is a verb, so "sotsugyou suru koto ga ..." is also correct.

Many verbs with "suru" can be used as nouns by simply removing "suru".

Natsuko(奈津子),
Team JapanesePod101.com

[ericf]

@mwbeale6642
Good point about suru/dekiru. But be careful; nomenai & nomu koto ga dekinai aren't exactly the same. Sure, they both mean can't drink. However, nomu koto ga dekinai is an objective / kyakkanteki statement whereas nomenai is a subjective / shukanteki statement. (I think I've got those two the right way around.)

enjin oiru ha, nomu koto ga dekinai yo. You can't drink engine oil!
kyakkanteki - kore ga mochiron janai? mina ga shiteiru.

watashi ni ha, osake ga nomenai. I can't drink alcohol.
shukanteki - kore ha, hito ni yotte chigau deshou.

And perhaps this is the difference between sotsugyou dekinai & sotsugyou suru koto ga dekinai? Hopefully someone can clarify :-)

(romaji in case andy-san's still listening)

[typo corrected - thanks to mwbeale6642]

[mwbeale6642]

Eric,

Thanks loads. I thought there must be a difference between "nomenai" and "nomu koto ga dekinai". I was thinking about that while commuting to work this morning.

I think there was a little typo in your post. I think this:

watashi ni ha, osake ga nomanai. I can't drink alcohol.

should read as:

watashi ni ha, osake ga nomenai. I can't drink alcohol.

Do you agree, or am I missing something?

Cheers,
Martin

[ericf]

Martin,

You're absolutely right. Well spotted, and thanks.

[community.japanese]

エリックsan, Martin-san,

wow, good point about "cannot do" expressions!

It's difficult to say about "difference" even because "sotsugyou suru" cannot really take "potential" form
to compare. Basically there's no strict guideline or rules about difference in meanings when you
use potential form (affirmative or negative) and "koto ga dekiru/dekinai".
In some cases, "koto ga dekiru/dekinai" are more used in wirting and/or fomal speech.
Also, there are some cases like Eric-san wrote:
enjin oiru ha, nomu koto ga dekinai yo. You can't drink engine oil! - kyakkanteki -

That said, "jugyou ni denai to sotsugyou dekinai" would be much more commonly used than
"jugyou ni denai to sotsugyou suru koto ga dekinai" in conversation.
If this appears in writings where curriculums are explained, for example,
"....ni mitanai (満たない) baai , sotsugyou suru koto ga dekimasen".

It has more to do with verbs' meanings than "koto ga dekiru" and potential form (or "...dekiru")


Natsuko(奈津子),
Team JapanesePod101.com