Pitch Accent and Verb/Adjective Conjugation

[Javizy]

I agree with the above. You only need to look on YouTube for a gaijin speaking Japanese for proof. They manage to live in Japan for years and reach fluency in the language, but still sound like crap. I did regular shadowing for over a year, and I still wasn't pronouncing ん right until somebody drew my attention to it. You have to learn pronunciation just like everything else. If you don't have the awareness, you'll never notice what needs improving.

[nihongojackie]

I think the best approach is doing both. You can study pitch and accent as much as you want, but if your not listening to real spoken Japanese (not just in textbooks but movies/friends), your just not going to sound Japanese. Languages are not some abstract subject you study but are in fact...languages.

With that said, I've never known anyone to study pitch accent and my friends fall into two categories. Those who sound like a Japanese person, and those that don't. Some people's ears do not pick up pitch and accent naturally, some do. If you are one that does not pick it up naturally, than studying pitch and accent is going to be very important for you.

[nihongojackie]

Other people's thoughts on the matter:
http://forum.koohii.com/viewtopic.php?id=1733

Also, if you haven't already, please check out the Genki (I and II) books. The WHOLE book is on CD. They make you listen and repeat your whole way through, with vocab, conjugation, and sentences. This was the way I learned accent and pitch in the beginning. If you literally do it every day, it becomes just part of you. That in combination with studying those charts will help immensely.

[Javizy]

Other people's thoughts on the matter:
http://forum.koohii.com/viewtopic.php?id=1733

Also, if you haven't already, please check out the Genki (I and II) books. The WHOLE book is on CD. They make you listen and repeat your whole way through, with vocab, conjugation, and sentences. This was the way I learned accent and pitch in the beginning. If you literally do it every day, it becomes just part of you. That in combination with studying those charts will help immensely.

You mean Genki has a section on accent? I listened to a ton of JPod when I started, and it did benefit my pronunciation a lot and I use the correct accent with many words today thanks to that exposure. The problem is the words/patterns that didn't fall into place so nicely. A friend of mine corrected me on a few, and I realised I was struggling to distinguish the difference.

It wasn't until I sat down and looked at the patterns and focused on recognising and producing them that things became a lot simpler, and it didn't take particularly long either. When somebody corrects me now, I can repeat the correct accent accurately, and it tends to stick. When I'm listening, accent jumps out at me just like stress does in English, and I consider the exposure I'm getting now much more valuable than that of before as a result. I can also look up words I've never heard pronounced in something like 大辞林 and be sure that I'm using the right accent.

Maybe it's possible to speak like a native by being completely passive, although I don't know how you'd get around the unheard words problem, but I've managed to spot pitch errors from people who are much more fluent than I am, so to me it seems invaluable to pay it some sort of attention.

[Alexandre]

You can't pay attention to something you don't know matters. Unless you are a linguist and you know a language may have pitch, you will likely just listen and repeat without having any idea that those ups and downs are not random and that they matter and are part of a fixed system. I'm sure most learners who are aware of pitch heard of it because they have been corrected. Once you've realized this, then you obviously need to listen and mimic to learn it. One thing that differenciates adults from children is that we have the ability to analyze a system and learn it rather quickly, instead of spending years and years of constant practice and corrections.

[nihongojackie]

Javizy- I think you've made some good points.

Another thread on this! lol
http://www.japanesepod101.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=57