Kanji vs Kana vs "Reading". Various questions

[thegsusfreek]

Hi! I'm very new here, so forgive me if I've posted this in the wrong forum (I thought about posting in a "Support" section, but I didn't think these questions fit in any of the subforums).

I've just started using this program and I've signed up for the 7 day premium trial. I'm absolutely loving it! But, I have many questions about written Japanese. I hope that someone can help answer them.

1) In the first table of the "Kanji Close-up" PDF files, the first two columns are labeled "Kanji" and "Reading". What exactly is "Reading"? Is it Kana? Is it what you would normally see if you were reading, for example, a Japanese newspaper?

2) As I am completely new to Japanese, should I focus on the spoken language first and then work on the written language, work on the written language first, or work on them both together?

3) What written form should I learn first? Kana or Kanji?

4) Looking in the "Reference Material" section, there are "Kana Basics" and "Kana Practice", but there isn't anything for Kanji. Is this because the lesson materials function as a guide to learning Kanji? Or is it because Kana should be learned first? Or is it just there for extra study should I be so motivated?

Thanks in advance for your time and help!

[QuackingShoe]

Answering a little out of order for ease of flow:

2) It's my personal opinion that the written language is more valuable from an initial learners standpoint because you have unlimited access to authentic Japanese resources that you have the time to slowly process in a way that you don't with the spoken language. But spoken is a more traditional way, so... opinions, opinions. Either way, you shouldn't ignore either of them.

1 & 3) A 'Reading' is how your pronounce a certain kanji in a certain context. Try reading up on the Japanese writing system somewhere. You can probably get all the most important information at wikipedia. But to briefly summarize here, the Kana are a phonetic system, similar to the English alphabet (in that it's phonetic..), that can be used to write anything in the language. か is always read 'ka', た is always read 'ta', かた = kata. However, the Japanese don't use this system exclusively, they use it together with the Kanji which, while having sounds associated with them, are primarily an 'idea' script. That same sound, 'kata', could be written as 肩　方　型 片 形 and more using the Kanji, and each symbol MEANS something different, but their READING (the pronunciation written in kana) is the same. And they also have OTHER readings associated with them, depending on context and further nuances of meaning. For instance, 方 can also be read 'hou'.
Both are used together in all aspects of the written language, save for things like books for very small children that may be written only in the kana. Many nouns are represented by kanji only (私 watashi = I), particles are written in the Kana (を wo/o = direct object marker), and conjugating items such as verbs and adjectives are generally written in combination, where the kana portion changes depending on conjugation and the kanji remains static. For example 食べる taberu 'will eat' 食べた tabeta 'ate.'

So you need to learn all of the kana first (it takes less than week), then find a way to learn the Kanji, of which there are thousands - around 2000 'standard', but many more in use.

4) I don't use the premium features of this website so I couldn't say, but the Kana are probably gone over because there's relatively few of them, whereas the kanji are massive and dealt with in 'kanji close-ups' and blog posts. It's difficult to incorporate them all into one thing.

[jkid]

When I started learning Japanese at the very begining I focused on spoken language. Than very shortly after learning just a few Japanese words and things like "Hello Nice to meet you I'm [name]" I (and the rest of my classmates) were told about the importance of learning the written language also.

I feel it is best to begin with Hiragana because Katakana is used less given that it is used for writing foreign words. Both Hiragana and Katakana do not take long to learn (perhaps 2 weeks to really become comfortable) and then you can progress onto Katakana. Kanji is extremely important to learn if you wish to become literate in Japanese. It seems an impossible task to master all the thousands of Kanji that exist. However, it is not something to be afraid of doing. Kanji learning is a slow process but also a tremendously rewarding one with each new character you master.

If you are an absolute beginner then focus on Hiragana and Katakana first. After you are comfortable with both and feel ready to look at learning some Kanji read the posts here on the different methods you can use to make the seemingly daunting process of learning Kanji fun!

Also, don't forget the Kanji close-ups they are a really great way to be introduced to Kanji because you are learning lesson vocab specific Kanji.

A final note, don't do what some people do and learn Hiragana, Katakana and then avoid learning Kanji it really is a must if you want to take your Japanese to the next level. The Kanji Curiosity blog posts show just how interesting and fun learning Kanji can be.

[thegsusfreek]

Thank you both very much for the replies! You've definitely cleared up a lot of things for me. I guess I'll start learning Kana then!

[debondtjan]

Another thanks from me too. I just started the newbies lessons too.

So it's best to start with Hiragana, followed by the katakana. I'll start with that. I want to be able to read the kana in the pdf's as fast as possible.

I guess it's better writing them down to learn them? Instead of looking and remembering them by heart? Or what is the best way to learn hiragana and katakana?

[QuackingShoe]

You can memorize them (and the kanji) well enough to read them in a standard font through sight alone, but writing them out helps for two reasons. One, the actual mechanical act of writing out a character adds another layer of mental connection in your brain.
Two, it helps read them in various fonts and handwriting, especially the kanji. Having a deep understanding of the direction and order of strokes lets you intuitively recognize characters when they don't actually look anything like the 'standard' characters, because you recognize them by the process they were written in.
There's a third reason to do it, but that has nothing to do with helping you read: Eventually you're going to have to write, and your handwriting will be balls if you don't practice ever

I wouldn't recommend writing them at high repetitions though. Mindless repetition doesn't actually aid memorization. Also, it's all more important for the kanji. You can safely pick up how to read kana in a couple days through visual flashcarding alone, so you can get right into reading them. But I'd advise learning to write them right after.

[debondtjan]

I just ordered a Kana flashcards set from WRP. I'm sure that's going to help my vocabulary and writing too.

Now I still got another question

For writing the kana/kanji, what would you suggest: a thick pen or a normal pen to practice? The bigger, calligraphic versions of kana & kanji (where they use a thick pen) always look so much better and easier to the eye than the smaller ones.

One problem I currently see in my learning process, is that sometimes small hiragana (on screen) miss some pixels (that you clearly see on bigger hiragana) that aided me in remembering certain hiragana. For example: an arc not completely drawn and looks more like a strike. If someone needs a better example, I'll try looking for one.

(i hope you understand what I'm trying to say here; I'm not a native english speaker )

[Belton]

For writing the kana/kanji, what would you suggest: a thick pen or a normal pen to practice? The bigger, calligraphic versions of kana & kanji (where they use a thick pen) always look so much better and easier to the eye than the smaller ones.

One problem I currently see in my learning process, is that sometimes small hiragana (on screen) miss some pixels (that you clearly see on bigger hiragana) that aided me in remembering certain hiragana. For example: an arc not completely drawn and looks more like a strike. If someone needs a better example, I'll try looking for one.

I suggest you use a pen that you are comfortable with. I think the easiest size to work with starting out is a square 15mm or 20mm on a side for each character. Maths copybooks for children are often a cheap source of large squared paper. Bigger characters can actually be harder to draw neatly. (Using a brush is even harder.) having the square divided into four gives you extra guidelines to get the proportions correct.

If you want to write neatly it's good if you can find a teacher to correct or guide you. Sometimes what looks ok to you might look a bit strange to a Japanese person. (This becomes more obvious when you start drawing kanji) There are books available that will point out mistakes to avoid.
Self Study Kana Workbook by AOTS is one I used.

I wouldn't really advise them for a complete beginner but there are some Nintendo DS titles available in Japan that mark your character out of 100 and even give guidance about proportion using what you have written as a starting point.



I found I had to increase the size type rendered in browsers to make Japanese easier to read. In a similar way that children's books are typeset in larger type. It makes it easier to distinguish different characters. Most browsers have a button to increase the text size.

[debondtjan]

Those are great ideas, thanks!