Geisha

[jkid]

Hi Guys,
I am studying Geisha at the moment. I know there is a "western myth" that Geisha are prostitutes and that has painted Geisha in a negative light. To the best of my understanding they are merely entertainers and their role does not extend beyond that in most circumstances. I am wondering what Japanese think of Geisha?

I am also interested in any resources (films, books, sites) that you many know of to assist me in further understanding Geisha.

Thanks all.

* Edit: I posted this in the wrong section, please accept my apologies

[Belton]

Liz Dalby's book Geisha is worth reading.
She was an American anthropologist that lived as a Geisha in Kyoto in I think the early 1980s maybe earlier.

The Sea is Watching gives a view of prostitution in a period drama. (one of Kurosawa's last projects, it was based on some of his notebooks)
(Courtesan / prostitute was a whole other "profession". Geisha had control and power in their lives that prostitutes wouldn't have. Indeed they had power that other Japanese women didn't have.)

The Geisha House (Kinji Fukasaku) is a Japanese film set in a Kyoto teahouse in the 1950's

I've just finished reading Geisha of Gion by Mineko Iwasaki. A memoir by a woman who was a geisha in the 1960's -70's Kyoto. It's very interesting.

I think perhaps that most Japanese would find Geisha as strange and other-worldly as westerners.

[jkid]

Thank you for the reply.

I have now picked up both books but am enjoying Geisha of Gion more. I think it is because Mineko Iwasaki was a Japanese Geisha whereas Liz Dalby was an American. I will definatly read both books and check out the films.

Thanks Belton-さん

[Bucko]

That book 'Memiors of a Geisha' certainly makes them out to be prostitutes - selling off their virginity and all. Don't know how accurate it is though because the book is entirely fictional, written by an American man.

[jkid]

Yeah,. people who saw the film said it had lots of problems in terms of how true it was to Geisha but it is my understanding that they sell their Omiage to the highest bidder to move from Maiko to Geisha.

Does anyone know about the makeup a Geisha wears? Proper names and how it differs from that of a Maiko's makup.

Thanks.

[Belton]

omiyage = souvenir, present

mizuage is what you probably meant.

I'm unsure as to the truth about it. It's there in translated Japanese sources so there may be something to it but it's also used as a more general phrase of initiation or coming of age. I don't know.

(It's probably just a synonym but mizuage also means catch (as in fishing) or earnings)

Geisha were highly paid and highly skilled in arts and tradition. If it was just about sex I doubt men would pay so much or want such high culture. But neither were geisha nuns. And there was certainly a different sexual morality than the West's.

[jkid]

Yes, mizuage is what I meant.

[Bueller_007]

I'm unsure as to the truth about it. It's there in translated Japanese sources so there may be something to it but it's also used as a more general phrase of initiation or coming of age. I don't know.

From goo.ne.jp:
(4)芸妓・娼妓がはじめて客と肉体関係を結ぶこと。

[jkid]

This settles it for me:

Q: Talk to me about the mizuage ceremony. What is it, and why is there so much confusion about it? A: This again goes back to the separation between the pleasure quarter and the entertainment quarter. Mizuage is really a coming-of-age ceremony, and apparently there was some selling of the virginity that went on in association with that ritual ceremony in the pleasure district a long time ago. However, that has never been true for the geisha. For the geisha, it was simply when they were becoming a young woman, similar to a sweet 16 in the West, and it was symbolized by the change in hairstyle, into a more womanly, grown-up hairstyle. And also certain subtle changes in the ensembles. There are a lot of rites of passage, but for some reason this one has been really latched on by people, and maybe it’s because of this misunderstanding. Also, it is true that as with many of the rituals and rites of passage, once one has become a maiko [geisha-in-training], or a geiko, it’s very expensive, because every time you go through an entire change of kimono, for example, or of hairstyle and you need different hair ornaments, these are expensive things. For me, I was the successor to the house, the atotori, so there was no question that the money was there to provide this. But if someone is coming from the outside and training, as basically someone who is there under contract, it is expensive, and sometimes they do ask their patrons to help pay for the cost involved in making the transition. Q: But their virginity isn’t offered in exchange for that help? A: That is never on the table. There is one other potential source of confusion, and that is with the word "mizuage" itself. In the Gion, the geisha district, and in many areas of the entertainment industry, "mizuage" is also a term that directly means "gross earnings," because it’s an old fishing term; as you may know, Japan was dependent on fishing for one of its main economic bases for many years. "Mizuage" means "to take out of the water." It stood for the catch. "What was your catch?" — "How much money did you make from the water?" So when I refer to mizuage, I’m actually referring to my earnings, rather than the ceremony itself.

It is from an interview of Iwasaki by Tamara Weider in the Boston Phoenix, the url for it is http://www.bostonphoenix.com/boston/news_features/qa/documents/02473409.htm."

* Taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mizuage#Sources

[Belton]

I found another very interesting book.
It's called Autobiography of a Geisha by Sayo Masuda (translated by G.G. Rowley)

These are the memoirs of an onsen geisha from the 19030's and 40's. It is very different from the high culture of Kyoto and gives an altogether different view of the flower and willow world. Masuda-san had no say in being a Geisha. The system of indentured service seems not so far removed from slavery. And the issue of sex is not as glossed over. For Masuda-san the only difference between prostitutes and geisha, is that the geisha has her art but her prime purpose was sex.

It is quite a sad story all in all. Unbelieveable that these things went on so recently. It also tells of post war hardships (when Masuda-san stopped being a geisha), although I get the feeling that for a lot of people post and pre war hardships were very similar.
(Masuda-san is still alive and is about the same age as my parents, so this is within living memory.)

[jkid]

Thanks for the tip, I just started reading this one

[Liz21]

Try this daily blog, written by a maiko:

http://ichi.dreamblog.jp/2/4/

It's in Japanese. Good luck!!

[jkid]

Wow, what a resource! Thanks a bunch

Domo Arigato Gozaimasu!

[kawasaki]

maiko-san
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYloGjIAm1k

geisha-san 's site
http://www.e-koito.com/index.html

http://iroha-japan.net/iroha/B07_work/01_maiko.html

these are in Japanese, too. Good luck!

[Kori Camacho]

Here are some websites that I've found about Geisha:

http://www.whatever.net.au/~amaya/geisha/home.htm[url]
http://www.immortalgeisha.com/ig/main.cfm[/url]

Good Luck!