Japan's Dark Side

[Elfunko]

The american system though maybe lacking compared to the "ideal" is much better and serves the purpose of producing people that can interact at least on a limited level in a foriegn language. However the japanese system doesn't produce these same results, thus the need for eikaiwa's for those who actually want to communicate in english. No?

[Bueller_007]

Eikaiwa's don't cater to high school students for the most part. They're there to teach English to adults. They depend quite heavily on the grasp of grammar and vocab that most Japanese high school students get, because most foreign eikaiwa instructors are not qualified (or even capable of) explaining English grammar. But once you've graduated from high school, eikaiwas and foreign language teachers are basically your only choice for English instruction.

I also have serious doubts about the "American" system. I think the only reason it produces "better" results are because people are learning easier languages. If you have only a basic knowledge of French, it's a hell of a lot easier to throw a sentence together than if you have only a basic knowledge of Japanese, because French sentence structure is so much more similar to English. You basically just say it the way you would in English using French words, and even if you're not spot-on you'll at least be understood. Good luck doing that in Japanese.

If Japanese were forced to learn Korean or maybe Chinese, you'd begin to see much better foreign language performance, IMO.

That, and they have to stop using English as a joke on TV.

[Ulver_684]

I'd like to start a thread where people can talk about Japan's dirty underbelly. Things that simply won't be covered on the culture class podcast, due to self-censorship.

Some potential topics:

Japan's role in WWII & post-war sentiment
Border disputes with Korea, Russia & China
Yakuza
Ultranationalism
Koizumi's visits to Yasukuni Shrine
The dispute over Article 9
The collapse of the bubble economy
Corruption (industrial and political)
Sex industry
Drug use
Discrimination & racism (against burakumin, Ainu & foreigners)
Suicide
Violent crimes committed by children
Administration of the death penalty
Any of the other numerous scandals that have wracked the country since the end of WWII

I know quite a bit about these topics, so if anybody has any questions about the dark side of Japan, please, feel free to ask (in English or Japanese).

Yes this truths won't be cover in class because the coat fell on alot of people and the true hurts!

[Gelfling21]

Hello Bueller 007,

I'm brand new to J-Pod101 and this forum, and just saw your post of March 29, 2007. One of the topics that is of great interest to me is discrimination against the Burakumin and Ainu; particularly the Burakumin.

I have tried to find books on the subject. There is an expensive one -- over a hundred dollars -- which is supposed to be one of the best. Unfortunately, my paycheck is one of the worst, so I can't afford to buy it yet.

I believe that in the 80's there was some type of listing of family names and regions considered Buraku which large corporations had acces to. A blacklist, I guess. Can you tell me the current feeling toward Burakumin in Japan? Does it vary with age and social/economic group? Are there some articles or books that you could recommend that give some background on the Burakumin and the discimination againt them?

Thank you!
G21

[ssomers]

I think they mentioned the smallpox blankets in Canadian school. It was a welcome break from endless history lessons about people in canoes exploring the wilderness and skinning beavers.

Back on topic, has anyone here read this book or heard this guy interviewed? He studied the hikikomori and women who live at home into their 30s without marrying and having kids and sees them as Japan's canaries in the coal mine.

Bueller,

I agree with you %100 here. I don't want to get into the nitty gritty of 'Darkside Japan'. I have noticed a tremendous surge in a genre of what I call the anti-guide. Instead of the usual cherry blossom romanticism, which dominated the book industry, there's a new trend in proving one's street cred by exposing nasty things as somehow indicative of the 'Japanese shadow'. It's nihonjinron in reverse. %95 of the time, most of the so-called 'Japanese' (culturally essentialist crimes) are, as you nicely point out, very widespread. The hikikomori is a perfect example. I think you need look no father than the recent child neglect cases in Western nations -- babies living in unbelievable filth while parents kill ogres on a plasma TV -- to see that digital escapism isn't exactly a "Japanese" phenomena.

I personally have trouble locating specific particularities of 'Japanese' nastiness . . . as in kinds that are somehow indicative of a Japanese national characterhood. The prevalence of softcore child porn is addressed frequently -- but sadly this is all too common in other places. Somehow there is a particular 'Japanese' version of it? I don't know. I do know that there are many people making a tidy profit out of being anti-Lafcadio Hearns. By that, I mean they've built a publising reputation out of 'exposing' the Japanese shadow. Surprisingly, most of these people come from major cities in which the local papers daily feature generalising articles on Hispanics or Blacks that are less than complimentary. Some people get their first whiff of racism, and it's not pleasant.

I suppose I'm just sceptical about prescriptive statements about the "Japanese" darkside (or light side) of the Force. I've used the scare quotes throughout this message, only because I find cultural investigations based on generalities doomed to fail. Still, there must be some kind of social mechanism at play here . . . producing both positive and negative results. I don't pretend to have any claims of my own. I have just become very suspicious about certain books -- and websites -- that, while exposing some of the worst abuses, tend to turn the incident into the rule. As I said, I think there is a definite trend right now in slagging Japan, when the previous hype had been to praise it. I just tend to take people as I meet them, regardless of nationality.

Anyway, what a stimulating topic. Thanks for starting it.

[Yoshiko]

None of these are unique to Japan, except Koizumi's visits the Yasukuni shrine, which is in every way a non-issue but gossip about its symbolism. He says Japan is a peaceful nation and he mourns all souls who have fallen in war. That's fine. If it irritates the Chinese - whatev!

Charles-san said this on the first page (some way back...OK) But I just have to say something about this, because I just finished a paper on the subject. (A NON-ISSUE! )
Firstly, it is not 'gossip', but there is a whole academic discourse about this shrine and the visiting by representatives of the government. The least you can say is that there is no separation between state and religion, because Koizumi did NOT come as a private person.
Secondly, the Chinese have a very good reason to be at least irritated. In the Yasukuni Jinja class A war criminals are enshrined. Ever heard of the Nanking massacre?
There are so many reasons why this whole shrine is absolutely not just for 'mourning the souls of the war dead'.
What to think of the fact that thousands of Taiwanese soldiers are enshrined? When the bereaved families want their relatives' remains back, they just get a 'no'. The reasoning is that they were japanese soldiers at that time and died with the idea that they would be enshrined.
But Taiwan was occupied.

Did anybody read or does anybody know the manga from Kobayashi Yoshinori? 'Analects of War' for example? What do you think of it? My Japanese is not yet good enough to read it, but I have some pages translated.

[Mican]

I actually agree with most of that, but that's mainly because you mostly agreed with me.

The only thing you said that I don't really agree with is Japanese attitudes towards Korea.

An anonymous Asahi survey conducted last year shows that 60% of Japanese "have a friendly attitude towards" South Korea, with the majority of the rest saying that they neither liked nor disliked them.

And just to show that it wasn't typical Japanese "I have no opinion" attitude, they also asked the same question about the Chinese.

Approx. 60% of Japanese have feelings of hositility towards the Chinese, with the majority of the rest saying they were neutral, and only a few saying that they felt a spirit of friendship.

The new positive feelings towards Korea are largely accredited to the "Korean Wave" (韓流), especially the tourism that was brought about by the TV show "Winter Sonata".


FYI, they also contacted Koreans and Chinese to get their opinions about Japan, and needless to say, the Chinese and Koreans feel more hostility towards Japan than the other way around. East Asia is just a giant junior high school, where nobody ever forgives anybody for anything.

As for the uchi/soto thing, it certainly exists, but I don't buy into it nearly as much as most people do. But I'm known to loathe most things "sociological".

Hahaha..what you said about East Asia is so true (I'm from Taiwan, where most love the Japanese and Koreans but hate the Chinese). Thank you for your insightful posts; they've broadened my views on discrimination.

[MagicToaster]

there was a tv show on in the UK called japanorama its about the darkside , i think most of it is on youtube.

[jettyke]

Wow, Charles, I´d give you + rep if this forum had this feature

[japchinman12]

there's a book that i was reading out of entitled "the Japan we never knew：　a journey of discovery. It discusses a lot of these issues. part of it talks about Japans part in the second world war. That it appeared that Japan was off to a very good start in the war.

1931 japan invaded Manchuria, set up 'a puppet government' and the league of nations strongly objected so japan left the league of nations. in 1937 Japan turned it attention onto china - The Nanjing massecre in December '37 Chinese sources saying 340,000 slain where as japanese sources claimed on 20,000.. " Many tortures, rapes and murders were FILMED and were undeniable. the book brought out these kinds of massecres throughout differant parts in Asia still remain a stumbling block in japan's relations with other asian countries down to this day.
in the book a man Named Shoko Ahagon
was quoted saying "at the beginning of the war japan seemed to be doing pretty well, but in 1944 we realized japan was losing" the man then held up a book a showed the interviewers and continued to say "this is a book about the autrocity committed by the japanese imperial army occupying Nanjing in 1937. It was an orgy of violence. one person could torture and kill hundreds of people. they got pleasure from it. i realized human beings could be lower the devils. this was the reality of the divine army, the army of gods. if the soldiers of the emperor are this bad, what could you expect from the americans, the devil-soldiers? not only rape and murder but worse."

iejima was the first island to be taking over southern japanese island by 500,000 american soldiers. apparently this man and some others had hid in some caves... came out after to "not one standing tree or one standing building
he said "when we saw the autrocites of the broken heads, hands and feet torn off, intestines scattered about, innocent children slaughtered , and the spectacle of mountains of dead bodies more then the eye could take in, we thought that neither God or Buddha were in this world, but only the devil."

in 1955 300 armed soldiers came on the land they said it was like the war all over again he had another account at this time in the book "they inflicted violence upon us farmers who placed our hands together in entreaty. they tied us up with rough straw rope and even wrapped us in blankets - threw us like pigs inside chain linked fences, and after accusing of the three crimes of agitation, violence, and public disturbance, set fire to 13 houses. .. demolished buildings with bulldozers and drove us out, put up wire fence around our fields and used them as a practice range for mock nuclear bombs.

it talks also about the Ryuku Kingdom, that existed as an independant nation until it was annexed by japan in 1879 and became Okinawa prefecture. they were considered second class citizens kept low class socially, economically and educationally.

by the war they considered themselves japanese and would give there life for the emperor. they said "April 1, 1945 they landed on the beach of Okinawa. The cruel struggle continued until General Ushijima's suicide and surrender of Okinawa on June 23... the southern one third of okinawa was completely destoyed... almost 62,000 of the civilian people died of wounds, starvation and disease. many of them were elderly persons, mothers, and children. Okinawans had been PLACED IN THE MOST DANGEROUS BATTLE POSITIONS BY THE JAPANESE OFFICERS. Many had been executed as 'spies' because the japanese military leaders did not trust their loyalty. food and shelter in natural caves and tombs were taken from Okinawan civilians by japanese soldiers, exposing them to death and wounds. many okinawan civilians committed mass suicide because japanese propaganda had convinced them that american soldiers would torture, rape and kill them. high school girls pressed into service as nurses were not allowed to come out of the large caves, which served as a japanese field hospital, to surrender to the U.S. soldiers. most of them died to the U.S. infantry's flame throwers which filled the cave with fire and death"

this man named Shoichi Chibana said he liked the soldiers when he was at a young age after they gave him candy and called the okinawan girls 'honey' and 'only' "when i was older" he said "i realized these terms meant protitute or mistress. It was then I realized our powerlessness...

this same man said "actually I'd rather have american soldiers than the japanese defence force because of what the japanese soldiers did to us 50 years ago!"


There is so many cases like this if you like to read about this subject this book, has most of the subjects that you listed on the first page..

[Elfunko]

I have since been to Japan, seen much, and realized much. Skimming through this thread I got the impression Bueller007 had fallen in love with Japan and would constantly argue to defend it, even when no attack is made. Rosy glasses.

Here's my contribution to exposing the farce of engineered Japanese culture:

http://www.themarijuanaobserver.com/200 ... japan.html

Check it out. You might learn something.

[untmdsprt]

Wow!! I can't believe this post is actually 5 pages long. It was going strong for awhile, and now it died.

I've been here over a year now, and my observations are these: Japanese are still bad at English and it's mainly because they aren't taught to actually think about the language. The teachers doing the teaching are bad in their pronunciation and that's why they have me read everything. I have to read everything slowly to the point where they are only used to me speaking slowly. Teachers included! If I ever speak at a normal English speed, a majority of people think I'm speaking a foreign language.

Students are also spoon-fed the answers so they never learn from their mistakes. If the teachers hand me the homework to give to them, I withhold the answers until after they've completed the assignment. They hate that, but it keeps them quiet! If I have to grade their assignments, etc., I take an all or nothing attitude toward their grades.

The other reason why they are so bad at English, is they write everything in katakana just to pronounce it!! One kid was trying to say radio, he kept saying rajio. I finally wrote out ray dee oh for the kid. He was then able to say it correctly in English.

Lastly, English is a required subject. They have no choice in the matter, and will only do the minimum. It's like pulling teeth to get these students to talk to me outside of class, and are perfectly happy for me to speak Japanese to them.

I believe most of the people here are so used to the military bases and the people on them either causing problems or expecting everyone to speak English. These people cause problems for the rest of us who actually came here to learn Japanese. I'll be speaking Japanese to someone, and they automatically switch to English. I can only assume they have been conditioned by these military people to only speak English when they see a white face. Same thing goes for when they are trying to write a Japanese title of a book in romaji. Personally, I find that ignorant, but I guess this also has to do with the conditioning of white face=English only. BTW, I'm a white American, so everything I say will refer to that point of view.

As for their attitude of me learning Japanese, most will proceed to tell me, not ask, that it must be very difficult for me. The only thing I find difficult is for people who'll actually speak to me at my level or slightly above it. Japanese is time consuming, but not difficult.

If you do find someone who's good in English is because they lived overseas for any length of time. Most of the ones I've met lived in the states, and we all know that Americans could care less about learning a foreign language.

[Grimga]

But it also means that, in order to maintain that state of natural order, they will help the foreigner in advance by putting up a sign outside their restaurant that says, "no foreigners allowed." In a way, you can probably see how it's still very much like giving directions!

I don't think that's why at all.

There are simply a lot of d*ck-head foreigners in Japan. They go to karaoke and they break glasses. They run away from taxis without paying. It's not their country and they know they're not going to be fully welcomed into Japanese society anyway, so they act like complete tools. For example, there's a massive Halloween party in Osaka where foreigners dress up in costumes, get a bag full of beer and ride the JR Loop Line all night. They get pissed drunk and harass the Japanese people who are just trying to get from point A to point B.

So maybe those restaurants have had bad experiences with foreigners. It's an action based on a stereotype, but it's somewhat understandable.

To be honest, I wouldn't want most of the foreigners in Japan in my restaurant either.

I agree most of the foreigners have no sanity or control of them selves so they come in Japan thinking oh its alright to be a dick here I hate them honestly they come thinking they can do whatever to the woman and they think they have full power because of their money or where they came from

[visisl124984]

Very interestin toughst here!

[Napster921]

asd