Alternate way of apologizing?

[Iwakurasan]

Mina-san,

There I go again questioning something I probably shouldn't in my newbie state. :)

Anyway, in Lesson 2 of the newbie course we learnt to say "Sumimasen" when you accidentally step on someone's toe or something. But what happened to "Gomen nasai?" In all Anime I've seen, when kids step on each other's foot and such in there, they invariably say: "Gomen nasai!", or "Gomen ne!", or even just "Gomen!". But I've never heard one actually use "Sumimasen!" So, is Sumimasen more like a grown-up, polite thing? Or can adults say "Gomen nasai!" too?

[amost]

Sumimasen isn't really outright apologizing. It's more like "excuse me" or in the case of stepping on someone's toes, "please excuse what I did". They definitely use it alot more than we would say "excuse me"

for example, you might use it if you asked someone a question like "are you mr/mrs X?" and they say "nope!", and you could reply "ah! sumimasen! I had the wrong person!" or something like that.

like... "please excuse my interruption"

...and while we're on the topic, "shitsurei shimashita" is another. shitsurei means "rudeness" so that sentence literally means "I've been rude", and you might hear that expression in places that you'd expect "sorry" to be in english...

also when japanese people say bye on the phone, (or leaving places in general) they'll often use shitsurei shimashita.

sorry to go even MORE off topic, but even when japanese people are entering someone's house, they'll say "o jama shima~su". "jama" is "disruption" so that phrase is like "I'm disrupting you!!! (sorry!)" most of these type of phrases are meant to cause as little trouble for the other person as possible. They love their harmony

[QuackingShoe]

gomen and variants are somewhat more familiar and are apology specific.

sumimasen (also: suimasen, suman, theoretically sumanai) literally mean something like "It's not finished" (it's the verb 済む - and it also refers to mental state) and are used in any situations that involves social debt (that is, it's not over, I'll pay you back). So it's used to apologize, but also to thank. It's used constantly.
Obviously, like most stock phrases, it's tie to any actual idea of social debt and finishing things has waned. But I still think it's useful to know. An example of where you can clearly see this is "ayamatte sumu mondai ja nai" which basically means "Sorry isn't enough" but is literally more like "This isn't a problem that apologizing will complete"



The idea that you're going around carrying the burden of other peoples kindness is common in Japanese in general. ありがとう is an evolution of ありがたい (which is also used for things) and is 有る (aru) + 難い (katai）, meaning that it's difficult for something to exist. Such is the weight of this burden

[Iwakurasan]

gomen and variants are somewhat more familiar and are apology specific.

Thank you again! Sumimasen!

sumimasen (also: suimasen, suman, theoretically sumanai) literally mean something like "It's not finished"

Ah yes, that would explain the -masen suffix. I was wondering about that. I can't do Kanji yet (check back with me in a billion years or so, give or take a few million, when I've finally mastered it). But I did look up 'sumi,' and the verb, like you said, of course, means "to settle (of social debts, etc.)."

So it's used to apologize, but also to thank. It's used constantly.

So, above, when I reply "Sumimasen!" to you, it would be like "Thank you (for taking the trouble to help me). I owe you."

Obviously, like most stock phrases, it's tie to any actual idea of social debt and finishing things has waned. But I still think it's useful to know. An example of where you can clearly see this is "ayamatte sumu mondai ja nai" which basically means "Sorry isn't enough" but is literally more like "This isn't a problem that apologizing will complete."

Very instructive! Again, domo arigato gozaimasu!