Romanization Clarification.

[leke]

Hi, I have just started to learn Japanese and I would like to discuss Römaji.
From this site...

Rōmaji, or ローマ字, is the romanization of the Japanese written language. Although some would argue that it is only a crutch and should be avoided, rōmaji does have its place in your repertoire – namely being the primary method of Japanese input for word processors and computers. In fact, Japanese children learn rōmaji in elementary school. That said, rōmaji is only a representation of written Japanese, and therefore should not be used as a primary means when learning the language. This can cause the formation of bad habits or misunderstandings.

There are several different systems of rōmaji. Arguably, the two most-often used systems are the Hepburn and Kunrei (訓令式) systems – the two systems supported in our User Settings options. The Kunrei system of rōmaji is the system taught to Japanese children in elementary school. There are a few variations of the Hepburn system. This site and our lesson notes use Revised Hepburn, which is the most common form of rōmaji used today, and is also used by the Library of Congress.

As soon as I found out about the Romanization, I thought it might be possible to learn without the traditional styles of writing. It appears everyone has the same view as this web article though and so, I would have to learn the other writing styles at some point.
Out of interest I was wondering if someone could expand on?..

This can cause the formation of bad habits or misunderstandings.

Also...

rōmaji does have its place in your repertoire – namely being the primary method of Japanese input for word processors and computers.

Do Japanese and foreigners use this in chat groups and which is more popular Hepburn or Kunrei? I've read that the foreigners favor Hepburn, but if the Japanese learn it in school maybe they favor this system?
Regards,
Leke.

[Alan]

You type in romaji, but it is converted in the computer to kana and kanji. Thus it doesn't matter which version of romaji you type. Both work equally well.

I'm typing 'arigatou gozaimasu'
Now I switch the language to Japanese and type the same thing - ありがとうごじます
So, once conversion to kana/kanji has occurred,it doesn't matter how you composed it.

[Javizy]

If you ever became fluent you'd regret being an illiterate; you really have to take the language as a whole. It initially put me off, but it's interesting and gratifying to learn, and the basic hana writing system takes no more than a couple of weeks to adjust to. Kanji will take time, but so does fluency. If you stick at it you'll find your writing and speaking levels will match closely, and even help one another along.

I'd recommend starting ASAP with hana (hiragana first, then katakana), and looking into the Heisig method of kanji learning. Many people misunderstand it, but it really does give you an excellent basis for recognising and remembering the kanji almost effortlessly. Try searching for 'heisig' on this forum.

[Belton]

oddly you need romaji to type via a qwerty keyboard, so regardless you're probably going to pick it up. to write with. It can also be quicker to take notes in, if you take a class.

The weirdest thing though is to see how Japanese write in romaji. besides some things like using ha for wa when its a particle their idea of word breaks is *very* different I think.

But my advice is learn kana at least. and if you're serious get working on kanji.

You don't *need* it in order to speak but it does help. honestly.
Mainly I've found it useful in conjugating verbs and adjectives. It also tended to help pronunciation by seeing it written in kana rather than romaji. One beat per character no temptation to start using English combinations or stress.
Also a lot of material is in kana so the sooner you learn it the easier it is to use this material and expand your learning opportunities.

It was once thought too difficult for gaijin but the thinking nowadays is it's best to learn via kana from the beginning.

And literacy is very useful, I only found out how much when I first went to Japan and found myself functionally almost completely illiterate. You can take literacy in English so much for granted sometimes I think.

[leke]

Thanks for those great replies. This has been really useful and has cleared up some confusion for me

[Bucko]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Forget romaji completely. It'll mess with your pronunciation and mess you up in the long run. For example:
ふ is not pronounced 'fu'
し is not pronounced 'shi'
ち is not pronounced 'chi'
ら、り、る、れ、ろ are not pronounced 'ra', 'ri', 'ru', 're', 'ro'.
But writing them in romaji will only reinforce these incorrect sounds.

[WCR91]

I'd recommend starting ASAP with kana (hiragana first, then katakana), and looking into the Heisig method of kanji learning. Many people misunderstand it, but it really does give you an excellent basis for recognising and remembering the kanji almost effortlessly. Try searching for 'heisig' on this forum.

Javizy-san,

While the Heisig method does have its perks, keep in mind that it doesn't give you the readings [thus not contributing to the fluency which you mentioned earlier]. However, on the plus side, the Heisig method *will* teach you to recognize the characters in a short amount of time, you won't learn how to pronounce them when you see them.

Although I have heard of many success stories with Heisig. So, Leke-san, you will just have to determine how far you want to go with the Kanji and what you want to do with them.


At any rate, I do think that Javizy-san's advice of learning the kana is an excellent idea. Being able to write sentences (even just using hiragana and katakana) makes you feel a lot more accomplished, plus you'll be able to read sentences using those sets of characters.

In the meantime, I'd at least search the forums and see whether I thought the Heisig Method was for me or not.

Happy Benkyou!

-Cody