My Jpod101 progress

[NickT]

I don't think there is anything "of course" about it.

Reading scientific papers with rikai-chan after 3 months would be ambitious, but perhaps not ludicrous. Reading the newspaper and scientific papers written in full kanji (including scientific and/or business kanji, which I believe are outside the standard jouyou kanji set) within 3 months of starting is pretty ridiculous.

Even the great Heisig, who claims to have learnt all the standard use kanji in 1 month, didn't claim to be completely fluent and reading newspapers etc. after 3 months. Even from the starting point of understanding all the kanji, it would take many months and probably many years of diligent study to be able to read a scientific paper written in Japanese. You would need a very good vocabulary and command of grammar to do so.

Watermen: How many kanji do you know? And by know, I mean able to read reliably without the use of a dictionary or rikai-chan?

[SkyDiver]

Thanks for pointing out Rikaichan! Didn't knew that one before

[watermen]

Watermen: How many kanji do you know? And by know, I mean able to read reliably without the use of a dictionary or rikai-chan?

I think I recognize at least 90% of the kanji in Heisig's kanji list by now. http://ziggr.com/heisig/

In term real usage or application, and the ability to associate it with the sentence without dictionary, I think probably around 40%. I am highly relying on Jim Breen's dictionary.

At this time of writing, I am now in Beginner #132, and I find the lessons are getting easier. It is so easy to a point that I feel like jumping into lower intermediate straight, but I decided not to do so, as I believe progression is a better way to study. I believe I would have been able to study more should I had not been too busy recently.

Actually kanji is very easy, it is all about memorizing only. The real difficulty I found is the understand of the cultural background and informal usage of Japanese. I have never lived in Japan, neither I have any Japanese friend, understanding those nuances is really tough. Understanding the grammar and the order of words in a sentence are not easy too.

[NickT]

Well, you are a better man than me, then. I know probably 90% of the ones towards the top, 50-60% of the ones towards the bottom.

I'd say I can reliably read, without the use of a dictionary, somewhere between 700-1000 kanji, and maybe have 'recognition' (ie might guess the meaning or reading in context) of another 2-300 on top of that.

I can't read newspapers thought (well, I can painfully slowly, with a dictionary, but that doesn't really count). I doubt I will be able to in 3 months. Maybe in 3 years, after I have passed JLPT2 and will probably be closing in on JLPT1 by then.

Scientific papers? Maybe another few years after that, not that I really have the incliniation to do so. In my line of work it is more likely likely I will have to read Japanese legal documents or financial statements, or stuff about the economy, which are probably equally difficult in their own way.

Oh, and to put the above in context, I have been learning Japanese for 4-5 years. I have never lived in Japan, and only study part time, but its still something I have put a lot of time and effort into.

[watermen]

Well, you are a better man than me, then. I know probably 90% of the ones towards the top, 50-60% of the ones towards the bottom.

I'd say I can reliably read, without the use of a dictionary, somewhere between 700-1000 kanji, and maybe have 'recognition' (ie might guess the meaning or reading in context) of another 2-300 on top of that.

I can't read newspapers thought (well, I can painfully slowly, with a dictionary, but that doesn't really count). I doubt I will be able to in 3 months. Maybe in 3 years, after I have passed JLPT2 and will probably be closing in on JLPT1 by then.

Scientific papers? Maybe another few years after that, not that I really have the incliniation to do so. In my line of work it is more likely likely I will have to read Japanese legal documents or financial statements, or stuff about the economy, which are probably equally difficult in their own way.

Oh, and to put the above in context, I have been learning Japanese for 4-5 years. I have never lived in Japan, and only study part time, but its still something I have put a lot of time and effort into.

Thanks for your complement. But I don't think I am any better. I have been studying day in and out for the past one month, making use of every single minute to memorize something.　I think Jpod101 did a fantastic job, progressing through every lesson from Newbie to Beginner S2 and Beginner is really effective.

I believe at your level if you put in one full month just studying Japanese, I believe you will be able to read newspaper well.

[watermen]

I am pretty surprised and shock how fast my Japanese improved, while I was browsing the forum in mangolanguages.com, someone there introduced Yahoo! JP News to learn Japanese. I clicked on the first news, it is a sad news, mom and her 3 children died in a fire. I feel for them. But I was very surprised that I understand 80% of what the newscaster saying and 95% of what was written in the news article. I have to say Jpod101 team did a great job, because I have been listening to everyone speaking Japanese everyday, this newscaster voice does not sound too unfamiliar to me now. Thanks again Jpod101.

But I do have a grammatical question from the news, hopefully someone can help me.

The full sentence is 死亡した４人はほとんど燃えていない３階から発見されていて、煙を大量に吸ったものとみられる。

So what does 発見されていて means, I understand 発見, but what about the されて. Another question is とみられる, what is it trying to mean?

My latest progress report, as of 1:26AMpm US Eastern time : Day 35 of learning.

Newbie: #48 lessons done.

Beginner: #141 lessons done.

Beginner S2: #48 lessons done.

Intermediate: #1 lesson done.

Cultural: #4 lessons done.

Introduction: #3 lessons done.

Survival: #18 lessons done.

Survival phrases.com (Japanese): #28 lessons done.

TryMango.com (Japanese): #4 lessons done.

[watermen]

I am so happy today, I thought of trying to listen to the latest podcast just for fun. Nevertheless, I realized that I actually understand lower intermediate lesson #49.

My latest progress report, as of 11:06pm US Eastern time : Day 38 of learning.

Newbie: #49 lessons done.

Beginner: #147 lessons done.

Beginner S2: #49 lessons done.

Lower Intermediate: Only lesson #49

Intermediate: #1 lesson done.

Cultural: #4 lessons done.

Introduction: #3 lessons done.

Survival: #18 lessons done.

Survival phrases.com (Japanese): #28 lessons done.

TryMango.com (Japanese): #4 lessons done.

[NickT]

I noticed in another thread you mentioned that you are doing Heisig. What number are you up to? Just curious... You should include that in your updates - assuming you are going through it systematically and in sequence, that is (if not you should be)

I am "doing Heisig" at the moment to. I am up to about 700 kanji, and I feel I have memorised them quite well. I have been doing it for about 1 month.

Thats not to say that I have learnt 700 kanji in 1 month, though. I knew about half of them already, but still I am going over them again and creating better mnemonics. Similarly, of the remaining 1100 kanji, I already know maybe 1/3 to 1/2 of them.

I have always been a sceptic in the past, not believing the hype around Heisig, but now I try it I find I really like it. I can't wait till finish Heisig, as then I will be able to really accelerate my Japanese study in other areas, without worrying about getting stuck on the kanji all the time.

[watermen]

I noticed in another thread you mentioned that you are doing Heisig. What number are you up to? Just curious... You should include that in your updates - assuming you are going through it systematically and in sequence, that is (if not you should be)

I am "doing Heisig" at the moment to. I am up to about 700 kanji, and I feel I have memorised them quite well. I have been doing it for about 1 month.

Thats not to say that I have learnt 700 kanji in 1 month, though. I knew about half of them already, but still I am going over them again and creating better mnemonics. Similarly, of the remaining 1100 kanji, I already know maybe 1/3 to 1/2 of them.

I have always been a sceptic in the past, not believing the hype around Heisig, but now I try it I find I really like it. I can't wait till finish Heisig, as then I will be able to really accelerate my Japanese study in other areas, without worrying about getting stuck on the kanji all the time.

I am done with that. I can recognize most kanji by now, but I may not know how to use it effectively. I guess it will only comes with time. I will still get stuck in kanji, that is where Jim Breen's dictionary and IME Japanese input comes into play.

[NickT]

You are quite nonchalant about it, but actually that is quite an accomplishment. I would be interested to know how you did it. So you learnt 50-100 kanji a day? How? Using the Heisig method? Did you actually go through the whole process of creating a mnemonic for each character, and making flashcards etc, or just read through the book and memorize it all? Or something else?

[watermen]

You are quite nonchalant about it, but actually that is quite an accomplishment. I would be interested to know how you did it. So you learnt 50-100 kanji a day? How? Using the Heisig method? Did you actually go through the whole process of creating a mnemonic for each character, and making flashcards etc, or just read through the book and memorize it all? Or something else?

It is not difficult to finish the whole book, just treat it as a novel and you will finish it fast. Like I say before, I don't fully understand everything. I memorize it and recognize it, but I may not know how to use it or pronounce it. Therefore it is difficult for me to estimate how much I know. Example: I recognize this kanji 圭 and know that it means "corner, angle" but I have never seen it anywhere, so I check this out in Jim Breen, and it will appear with words like 刀圭, 圭璧 etc, which I have never seen and certainly do not know the meaning. Therefore, I can only say that I memorized and recognized this kanji, but I do not know how to use it.

I do use flashcards for words and kanji that I find difficult to memorize. But more importantly I will write it multiple times.

[kitty-chan]

Waterman, where are you from?
I mean, is this your first exposure to Kanji?
Can you read the kanji only? or can you write them all?
If you did, that's almost super-human. I think Chinese and Japanese kids don't learn kanji that fast.

Japanese is my first exposure to Kanji and I tried the Helseig thing. But it doesn't work for me...

[NickT]

Interesting, because when I see that character I think "square jewel" first [this works with the second example word you gave, but not the first], and then "ivy" second (if it is used as a radical in another kanji), but never corner or angle. Either way though, it is an obscure character that I don't think I have ever seen actually used either.

That is one thing you have to get used to with kanji, that each and every one has many pronunciations, and even more meanings, and it is impossible to tie each one down with a single keyword or meaning. This is one of the big flaws with the Heisig method. Having said that, just the act of recognising the character, even if the meaning is completely different from the one you have learnt, is a big advantage, and makes the process a worthwhile one.

Another problem I have with Heisig is just that many of the keywords (and to an extent the meanings he has given to the radicals) are poorly chosen. I notice this most when I come to kanji I already know, and I think to myself "thats not what it means". So, I end up changing the keyword and using my own ones instead.

[jp101crew]

こんにちは、ウォーターメンさん！

すごい勢いで日本語を勉強していますねぇ、、、スゲー！んで、ものすごい速さで日本語をマスターしていっているじゃないですか。これまたすごい！

でも、どうやったらそんなに速く日本語を勉強できるのですか？いくらJP101が優れてるといっても、限界が。。。そこで僕が思ったのは、何かwatermenさんは特別な事をしていると思いました。
いくつか質問させてください！
１、PDFとかをダウンロードしたら、何から勉強し始めますか？いきなり講座を聞き始めますか？もしくは、単語チェックとかをしてから勉強を始めますか？
２、一つの講座を勉強し終えるのに、どのくらいの時間がかかりますか？
３、JP101の講座以外に、何か他に自分で勉強していますか？もしくはしていましたか？

ぜひぜひ、watermenさんの勉強のやり方を教えてください！！！

勇樹

[watermen]

こんにちは、ウォーターメンさん！

すごい勢いで日本語を勉強していますねぇ、、、スゲー！んで、ものすごい速さで日本語をマスターしていっているじゃないですか。これまたすごい！

でも、どうやったらそんなに速く日本語を勉強できるのですか？いくらJP101が優れてるといっても、限界が。。。そこで僕が思ったのは、何かwatermenさんは特別な事をしていると思いました。
いくつか質問させてください！
１、PDFとかをダウンロードしたら、何から勉強し始めますか？いきなり講座を聞き始めますか？もしくは、単語チェックとかをしてから勉強を始めますか？
２、一つの講座を勉強し終えるのに、どのくらいの時間がかかりますか？
３、JP101の講座以外に、何か他に自分で勉強していますか？もしくはしていましたか？

ぜひぜひ、watermenさんの勉強のやり方を教えてください！！！

勇樹

あれ。。。あなたは日本人ですか？あなたの日本語凄いですね。僕は日本語が下手です。

Forgive me for not able to understand everything you say. I am still a beginner.

For question number 1, are you asking after I download those PDF files, how I started studying? Do I listen to it immediately? Otherwise, do I start studying from the check list?

For question number 2, how long do I take to study one lesson?

for question number 3, do I use other material to study other than Jpod 101?

I will answer your questions if I did not misunderstand your question, may someone confirm it with me?

Thanks for your comment, reading your reply is tougher than listening to Miki's audio blog....but I think it is a good training for me. I learned a few new words from your post.